The True Church

[Scuba Pete]

That the Scriptures are the Word of God.

This is not even proclaimed by scriptures. Why put this on others?

 

[Scuba Pete]

In looking up a scripture for another thread, I found this. It supports my contention that trying to figure out WHICH denomination is the "true church" is an unholy quest.

I Corinthians 3:1 Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? 4 For when one says, "I follow Paul," and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere men? NIV

 

[Luke_17:2]

This is not even proclaimed by scriptures. Why put this on others?

If the Bible isn't the Word of God, then lay off calling it the Scriptures.

Of course the Bible is God's Word: II Timothy 3:16

 

[Scuba Pete]

If the Bible isn't the Word of God, then lay off calling it the Scriptures.

You certainly have a flawed understanding of Scriptures. Show me in the Scriptures where it is EVER referred to as the "Bible".

Of course the Bible is God's Word: II Timothy 3:16

A twisting of a GREAT verse.

II Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. NIV

God Breathed means INSPIRED. We had a thread on this recently. When God speaks in the Scriptures, it is usually preceded with "Thus says the Lord your God..." The Scriptures never claim to be perfect either as they were written by men and they certainly never claim to be the sole Word of God either. In the New Testament it's easy just to follow the actual WORDS of Jesus, who WAS proclaimed to be the Word of God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
6 There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. NIV

But modern Christians parrot what they hear from the pulpit or from their family and friends without ever searching through the Scriptures to see if there is truth in those teachings. There is a lot of knowledge and truth in the scriptures, and you would do well to study them. However, love only comes from implementing the scriptures in your life as you are guided by the Spirit.

 

[Luke_17:2]

You certainly have a flawed understanding of Scriptures. Show me in the Scriptures where it is EVER referred to as the "Bible".

Name me a verse where Genesis was ever referred to as Genesis.

The word "Bible" is derived from "biblos" meaning "a book".

A twisting of a GREAT verse.

God Breathed means INSPIRED. We had a thread on this recently. When God speaks in the Scriptures, it is usually preceded with "Thus says the Lord your God..."

Yes, it means inspired. Now look up inspired.

I might add that you're twisting to the point of heresy a GREAT book.

The Scriptures never claim to be perfect either as they were written by men and they certainly never claim to be the sole Word of God either.

It most certainly did claim to be the word of God.

Matthew 4:4. Jesus said, "It is written, men shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." -He was quoting the Old Testament when He said that. Obviously, Jesus thought it was good enough to tell off Satan with.

Hebrews 4:12. "For the word of God is quick and powerful, sharper then any two-edged sword..." -The context is not Jesus.

Jeremiah 23:29. "Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?" -The Lord was dictating to Jeremiah concerning the false prophets in Israel. You see, the Lord had already commited to writing what was going to happen, and these false prophets were directly contradicting it: they were contradicting the WRITTEN WORDS OF GOD.

II Peter 1:21. "holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

I Corinthians 2:13. "Wisdom which also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth." -So, Paul claims that what he was speaking were not his; he said it was the Holy Ghost's wisdom.

II Peter 3:2. "That ye may be mindful of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour."

Jude v.17. "Beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ."

-All these verses call the words of the apostles merely spoken of them on the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit.

In the New Testament it's easy just to follow the actual WORDS of Jesus, who WAS proclaimed to be the Word of God.

I didn't include it, but it really wasn't necessary to copy and paste half the New Testament to your post.

The words of Jesus are only found in the Bible -so how can you deny the Bible is the written word of God, and then go imply that there might be others?

But modern Christians parrot what they hear from the pulpit or from their family and friends

Brother, if you think I'm parroting, come right out and say it. If there's any thing I hate, it's passive aggression.

without ever searching through the Scriptures to see if there is truth in those teachings. There is a lot of knowledge and truth in the scriptures, and you would do well to study them.

The Muslims have a point, you know. Christians like you saying that the Bible is merely a collection of wise sayings written by corruptible human beings. If that's true, then I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw you.

The thing is, though, that the Bible was written by men on the authority of God Himself.

However, love only comes from implementing the scriptures in your life as you are guided by the Spirit.

Yes. What is your point? What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Name me a verse where Genesis was ever referred to as Genesis.

The word "Bible" is derived from "biblos" meaning "a book".

I call them Scriptures... deal with it!

Yes, it means inspired. Now look up inspired.

Why? I know what INSPIRED means... it means that God didn't write each and every word: he INSPIRED men to write, in much the same way that men are inspired to paint because of a beautiful sunset!

I might add that you're twisting to the point of heresy a GREAT book.

You have YET to provide any scriptures that say that these collection of scriptures are ONLY the word of God or that they are indeed perfect. NOTHING you have provided so far has done that. Answer the question or cede the point.

All these verses call the words of the apostles merely spoken of them on the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit.

Point in fact, you are reading a TRANSLATION of Jesus' words in the NT. He spoke Aramaic and not Greek. There is really only one scripture where he is quoted verbatim... It's incredibly important that this scripture retain his actual words. For the rest, the SPIRIT will lead us into all of the truth.

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. NIV

You DO believe in the Spirit, don't you?

I didn't include it, but it really wasn't necessary to copy and paste half the New Testament to your post.

I am sorry you find the Scriptures irksome to read!

The words of Jesus are only found in the Bible -so how can you deny the Bible is the written word of God, and then go imply that there might be others?

I have made it a habit to speak where the Scriptures speak and to not add to them in any way. I present Scriptural truths as just that and opinions as just that. I realize you do not share this ideology, but don't expect me to buy into your traditions when you have no scripture to back them up.

Brother, if you think I'm parroting, come right out and say it. If there's any thing I hate, it's passive aggression.

That's kind of funny actually. If the shoe fits, then by all means wear it. Don't expect me to size your foot on the other end of the Internet.

The Muslims have a point, you know. Christians like you saying that the Bible is merely a collection of wise sayings written by corruptible human beings. If that's true, then I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw you.

That's not what I said. But it's normal for people to get all excited when someone presents the truth to them and that presentation goes against the years of tradition they have learned from.

The thing is, though, that the Bible was written by men on the authority of God Himself.

PRECISELY... BY MEN! No man is perfect, not even Men of God.

Yes. What is your point? What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

This has nothing to do with the price of Tea even in Boston Harbor. It does give us insight into how important the Spirit is in our lives.

 

[gnostic]

Name me a verse where Genesis was ever referred to as Genesis.

The word "Bible" is derived from "biblos" meaning "a book".

And your point being?

The Bible is a Greek word, and yet none of the biblical writings ever mention "bible".

None of the quotes you got, referred to the bible or scripture. And none of it referred to the words of God being the "bible". I don't see any connection between words of God and bible.

I might add that you're twisting to the point of heresy a GREAT book.

There were a single book. Each book, gospel, hymn, letter were written in different time. There were no single scripture.

Yes, it means inspired. Now look up inspired.

Inspiration and inspired don't make it written by God or being the words of God. It certainly doesn't make it perfect.

 

[Luke_17:2]

I call them Scriptures... deal with it!

Your right to call them that. Just don't imply it's unbiblical to call them the Bible. Bible is easier to say anyway.

Why? I know what INSPIRED means... it means that God didn't write each and every word: he INSPIRED men to write, in much the same way that men are inspired to paint because of a beautiful sunset! You have YET to provide any scriptures that say that these collection of scriptures are ONLY the word of God or that they are indeed perfect. NOTHING you have provided so far has done that.

All of those verse made either references to the word of God (the Scriptures) or said something about how it was the wisdom of the Holy Spirit. I also suggest you read verse 15 of II Timothy 3. It says, "...the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith wich is in Jesus Christ" -Proving the holiness of the New Testament as well. I think we agree, in a way. I believe that it's the word of God in that, though the men were writing it in their own words, the inspiration was coming from the heart where the Holy Spirit dwells: He was guiding the writers' hands. In that respect, it was the word of God. The same way that the constitution was written by Madison in his own words, but they weren't his ideas. The convention was telling him what to write, but not the manner in which to write it. Things like obvious different styles of writing prove that the Bible wasn't dictated, but things like the fact that there are no contradictions, considering that 40 people wrote it over a period of 1600 years, prove a higher authority,

Answer the question or cede the point. Point in fact, you are reading a TRANSLATION of Jesus' words in the NT. He spoke Aramaic and not Greek. There is really only one scripture where he is quoted verbatim... It's incredibly important that this scripture retain his actual words. For the rest, the SPIRIT will lead us into all of the truth.

Yes it was a translation by men who spoke Greek and Aramaic.

You DO believe in the Spirit, don't you?

What kind of question is that? Of course I believe in the Holy Spirit.

I am sorry you find the Scriptures irksome to read!

Exactly the kind of thing a passive aggressive person would say. I didn't say that. I simply said it was unnecessary, and it was.

I have made it a habit to speak where the Scriptures speak and to not add to them in any way.

Great. Neither do I add or remove. Anyone who would think of doing it had better read Revelation.

I present Scriptural truths as just that and opinions as just that. I realize you do not share this ideology, but don't expect me to buy into your traditions when you have no scripture to back them up.

What are you talking about? Have I said that my opinions equal Scripture? I've said that the Bible is the word of God, and then backed it up with Scripture. You haven't actually refuted any of the Scripture I presented.

That's kind of funny actually. If the shoe fits, then by all means wear it. Don't expect me to size your foot on the other end of the Internet.

A man's words sum him up. How do we expect to know God, whom we can't see, without reading His words that teach us salvation? Don't go on about how this is the internet, and you really don't know the person. You've already made the judgement, you simply don't have the decency or the courage to say it outright.

That's not what I said. But it's normal for people to get all excited when someone presents the truth to them and that presentation goes against the years of tradition they have learned from.

It also doesn't help that it's against the fundumental idea that the Bible is sound for doctrine. But I notice that now you're calling your opinion the truth. Oh, physician heal thyself.

PRECISELY... BY MEN! No man is perfect, not even Men of God.

So, you're saying that the Scriptures are not perfect?

This has nothing to do with the price of Tea even in Boston Harbor. It does give us insight into how important the Spirit is in our lives.

Yes, we agree. My point is that it simply has no basis in this discussion.

 

[Scuba Pete]

A man's words sum him up. How do we expect to know God, whom we can't see, without reading His words that teach us salvation?

Herein lies our greatest disagreement. The Scriptures can bring you knowledge, they can NOT help you to understand. We know God through his SPIRIT.

II Corinthians 3:15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. NIV

You can rely on the Scriptures, but I will rely on the Spirit working through the Scriptures.

So, you're saying that the Scriptures are not perfect?

No, I am saying that the Scriptures don't support your tradition and you have failed to produce any Scriptures to the contrary. You have exchanged the truth for a tradition of man. Clear enough for you?

 

[Darkness]

1. Believes that Jesus Christ is God. John 1:1

1 Timothy 2:5 (King James Version)
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

4. Teaches that The Bible is the True Word of God, and is without error. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

Proverbs 8:13 (King James Version)
The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

1 John 4:18 (King James Version)
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

9. Teaches that Sinners will go to Hell. Revelation 21:8, 20:11-15

1 Timothy 4:10 (King James Version)
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

 

[Luke_17:2]

1 Timothy 2:5 (King James Version)
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

I could give you a dozen verse proving the deity of Christ, and can tell you that this doesn't disprove anything. And He being God along with the Father and the Holy Spirit doesn't mean there is more then one God -it's what we call the Trinity. But that's completely other story, and I don't think you have to accept it to be a Christian. I think you must accept the deity of Christ because only someone fully man, and fully God can wash your sins and the sins of the world

Proverbs 8:13 (King James Version)
The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

1 John 4:18 (King James Version)
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

What's your point? If it's that the Bible contradicts itself in this instance, you're wrong. Because you should fear the Lord the same you should fear the law, your father, etc.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and that's what Proverbs was referring to. What that means is you fear with a fear that is holy and pure, in respect for His holiness and power. Not because you're afraid of what He might do you.

1 Timothy 4:10 (King James Version)
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

He's the Saviour of all men who will accept Him, and you do that by calling on His name.

If you reject Him, you are condemned to everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. If there's no hell, what are you getting saved from?

So, if you're unsaved you're going to hell. Don't fall for the politically correct Christians who like to say that God wouldn't send anyone to hell -He would. Not willing, but He will if you reject Him. There is more to God then love. Though love is a great part of Him, He is a balanced God.

 

[Darkness]

I could give you a dozen verse proving the deity of Christ, and can tell you that this doesn't disprove anything. And He being God along with the Father and the Holy Spirit doesn't mean there is more then one God -it's what we call the Trinity. But that's completely other story, and I don't think you have to accept it to be a Christian. I think you must accept the deity of Christ because only someone fully man, and fully God can wash your sins and the sins of the world

I am not arguing there are not verses that prove the deity of Christ. However, there are also verses that prove Jesus Christ in not God. Notice the dichotomy presented in Timothy. There is God and a mediator (Jesus).

What's your point? If it's that the Bible contradicts itself in this instance, you're wrong. Because you should fear the Lord the same you should fear the law, your father, etc.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and that's what Proverbs was referring to. What that means is you fear with a fear that is holy and pure, in respect for His holiness and power. Not because you're afraid of what He might do you.

Many times in the Old Testament it tells us to fear God. 1 John tells us there is "no fear" in Love. You cannot see how that is a contradiction?

He's the Saviour of all men who will accept Him, and you do that by calling on His name.

But it doesn't say that, does it? It says God is the saviour of all men. It has no conditions.

If you reject Him, you are condemned to everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. If there's no hell, what are you getting saved from?

So, if you're unsaved you're going to hell. Don't fall for the politically correct Christians who like to say that God wouldn't send anyone to hell -He would. Not willing, but He will if you reject Him. There is more to God then love. Though love is a great part of Him, He is a balanced God.

Eisegesis - You are starting with an assumption to come to a conclusion.

Luke 6:39
And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

 

[sojourner]

The Christian Chuch, better referred to as the Body of Christ, must believe these things:

That Jesus came in the flesh to take away the sins of the world, and to save each sinner individually
That He died, was risen the third day by God, and was taken bodily into heaven
That you must confess this and ask forgiveness to be saved
That you're being saved from hell (aka eternal damnation)
That He'll come again to receive the believers
That the Scriptures are the Word of God.

Why? Jesus didn't say, "Believe these things about me." Jesus said, "Follow me." For a long time, the Church was referred to as "Followers of the Way."

You have failed to show in any objective manner that these things are imperative for the Christian to believe. Maybe they're imperative for you, but they probably aren't imperative for a great number of people who follow Jesus.

 

[Pastor ROC]

Hey everyone. I'm pretty new to this forum. I used to participate on the American Idol "off-topic" forums where we discussed religion, but they've recently put a "hold" on religious discussions due to some people's inability to remain respectfu. So, I thought I'd try this out and see how it goes. What's the "hot-topic" currently being discussed?

 

[Scuba Pete]

You have failed to show in any objective manner that these things are imperative for the Christian to believe.

Indeed! Point of fact: Jesus only gave us ONE acid test for someone to be his disciple. It had NOTHING to do with doctrine, and everything to do with LOVE. For those who want to add rules to what Jesus said, or who want to compare each other's churches, you really need to learn why Jesus quoted this scripture MORE than any other: "I desire mercy and not sacrifice..."

This unholy quest to prove which church has sovereignty over God's Kingdom reminds me of a few instances between Jesus and his Disciples.

Luke 9:46 An argument started among the disciples as to which of them would be the greatest. 47 Jesus, knowing their thoughts, took a little child and had him stand beside him. 48 Then he said to them, "Whoever welcomes this little child in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. For he who is least among you all—he is the greatest." 49 "Master," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us."
50 "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you." NIV
Matthew 23:8 "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. NIV

 

[Luke_17:2]

I am not arguing there are not verses that prove the deity of Christ. However, there are also verses that prove Jesus Christ in not God. Notice the dichotomy presented in Timothy. There is God and a mediator (Jesus).

There is one mediator: the man Jesus. He has two natures.

Many times in the Old Testament it tells us to fear God. 1 John tells us there is "no fear" in Love. You cannot see how that is a contradiction?

I can't see a contradiction because there isn't one.

It's clearly a reference to a Godly fear: Hebrews 12:28

But it doesn't say that, does it? It says God is the saviour of all men. It has no conditions.

Yes it does. The verse says "...specially of those that believe" That means that Jesus is the saviour of mankind, but only for those who will believe in Him. Everyone has the choice; but it's up to them. Those who will not believe will hear this:

"Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels"

Eisegesis - You are starting with an assumption to come to a conclusion.

No I am not. I'm reaching a conclusion based on the Bible:

Matthew 25:29-46
Jude v.7
Revelation 20
Revelation 21:8
Galatians 6:7
II Peter 3:9

All of these passages deal with eternal damnation for all those that do not believe.

Luke 6:39
And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

What is your point? Is it that Christians have no standing in regards to salvation, damnation, etc.?

 

[Luke_17:2]

Why? Jesus didn't say, "Believe these things about me." Jesus said, "Follow me." For a long time, the Church was referred to as "Followers of the Way."

Of course He didn't tell His disciples to "believe these things about me": they didn't have to believe because they were eyewitness! They were witness to Jesus's death, and resurrection. They didn't waste any time proving any of those things because they were eyewitness to them! All they had to believe was that Jesus was the Son of God, and that He could save them from their sins. They did; everything else was a given.

What part of the list do you disagree with anyways?

 

[sojourner]

Of course He didn't tell His disciples to "believe these things about me": they didn't have to believe because they were eyewitness! They were witness to Jesus's death, and resurrection. They didn't waste any time proving any of those things because they were eyewitness to them! All they had to believe was that Jesus was the Son of God, and that He could save them from their sins. They did; everything else was a given.

What part of the list do you disagree with anyways?

That Jesus came in the flesh to take away the sins of the world, and to save each sinner individually
That you must confess this and ask forgiveness to be saved
That you're being saved from hell (aka eternal damnation)
That He'll come again to receive the believers
That the Scriptures are the Word of God.

You're confusing belief in doctrine with belief that Jesus was the Messiah.

Jesus came in the flesh to reconcile humanity to God.
I am saved. Because of that knowledge, I am free to live into that reality.
I'm being saved from my own illusions.
Jesus comes to receive all humanity.
The scriptures are part of the word of God.

 

[Muffled]

This is the trouble with creeds. They never seem to live up to the Biblical testimony. I was brought up American Baptist with no creed but only a belief in the bible as the testimony of God. That does not mean that they didn't have some favorite beliefs that they saw as revealed from the Bible but there was never an insistance that all must adhere to those beliefs. This is also a Congregational view as well. Unfortunately this sometimes leads to people not understanding the scriptures and thinking themselves into an anti-christian/anti-Biblical belief and still finding acceptance within the church.

I believe this verse defines the Church:
Mt 18:20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

 

[Darkness]

There is one mediator: the man Jesus. He has two natures.

Sigh...

I can't see a contradiction because there isn't one.

It's clearly a reference to a Godly fear: Hebrews 12:28

There is absolutely no fear in Love.

Yes it does. The verse says "...specially of those that believe" That means that Jesus is the saviour of mankind, but only for those who will believe in Him. Everyone has the choice; but it's up to them.

That is not what it says. It says God is the saviour of all, but the people believing are somehow special. The believers being special in no way removes the saving from the non-believing.

Those who will not believe will hear this:

"Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels"

Matthew 25:41 (Concordant Literal New Testament)
'[G]o from Me, you cursed, into the fire eonian, made ready for the Adversary and his messengers.

Jude v.7
Revelation 20
Revelation 21:8
Galatians 6:7
II Peter 3:9

Jude 1:7 (Concordant Literal New Testament)
As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner to these committing ultra-prostitution, and coming away after other flesh, are lying before us, a specimen, experiencing the justice of fire eonian.

The Unveiling (Concordant Literal New Testament)
And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons.

Galatians 6:7 (Concordant Literal New Testament)
Be not decived, God is not to be sneered at, for whatsoever a man may be sowing, this shall he be reaping also,

This actually implies an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

What is your point? Is it that Christians have no standing in regards to salvation, damnation, etc.?

Christians are blinded by their worship of the Bible. Man (or woman) always wants all the answers lied out in front of him. Man turns the Bible into an Idol, a thing to worship. Christians accuse other Christians of blasphemy when they do not hold the view of Biblical inerrancy. They cannot see that the Bible has many problems because the death of their Idol would mean the death of their God. And man is afraid of uncertainty, of figuring out for himself what is good and what is evil. It is so much easier just to follow the dictates of a book than to think for yourself.