The True Church

[moorea944]

"I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior." Isaiah 43:3 Anybody that twists that scripture to mean Jesus is NOT God,, will not be in the Kingdom,, Because it takes someone that is dishonest to twist that scripture... But, many folks hate Jesus,, and desire to reduce him to a mere created sinner.

Arent you twisting scripture? Isaiah 43 is about God. How are you putting Jesus in there? Jesus wasnt born yet. And... who posted that Jesus was a mere sinner? I never read that.... did you?.....

 

[Mr. Beebe]

Arent you twisting scripture? Isaiah 43 is about God. How are you putting Jesus in there? Jesus wasnt born yet. And... who posted that Jesus was a mere sinner? I never read that.... did you?.....

Jesus is God. Jesus is the Holy one of Israel. Jesus is the Savior.

If you believe Jesus is not the "Savior",,,,then,, I think you are in for a big surprise.

Jesus is also the "Redeemer",, as the scripture clearly states. But,, some people will not have the truth.

You say "Jesus wasn't born yet"? Does that mean to you that Jesus didn't exist because He wasn't born? lol What do you do with the scripture that says: "Before Abraham was, I am." John 8:58 ????? Would you want to throw rocks at Jesus?

 

[moorea944]

Jesus is God. Jesus is the Holy one of Israel. Jesus is the Savior.

If you believe Jesus is not the "Savior",,,,then,, I think you are in for a big surprise.

Jesus is also the "Redeemer",, as the scripture clearly states. But,, some people will not have the truth.

You say "Jesus wasn't born yet"? Does that mean to you that Jesus didn't exist because He wasn't born? lol What do you do with the scripture that says: "Before Abraham was, I am." John 8:58 ????? Would you want to throw rocks at Jesus?

Jesus is God. Jesus is the Holy one of Israel. Jesus is the Savior.

Jesus is not God. And yes, Jesus is now our saviour too. Scripture tells us that. But it doesnt make him God. Doesnt the bible tell us that God works "through' his son? In the OT, God was the King, the saviour, the rock of salvation. But now, he does it through his son. He has "given" his son authority on that. Doesnt scripture tell us that? Jesus is subject to his father, even now.

If you believe Jesus is not the "Savior",,,,then,, I think you are in for a big surprise.

I never said that.

Jesus is also the "Redeemer",, as the scripture clearly states. But,, some people will not have the truth.

I agree with you on that.

You say "Jesus wasn't born yet"? Does that mean to you that Jesus didn't exist because He wasn't born? lol

Yes. Why would you have to say that he existed before he was born? John 1v14 and then the word of God became flesh.....

What do you do with the scripture that says: "Before Abraham was, I am." John 8:58 ????? Would you want to throw rocks at Jesus?

Your taking that out of context because you believe in the trinity. And that is easy to understand too. The Gospel was preached before Abraham. Even Adam and Eve knew that someday someone would come along to take away the sins of the world. The "messiah' was preached before Abraham. That's is what it is saying. Jesus is NOT saying he pre-existed. How can you exist before you were born. Only God has always had immortality.
Oh wait a minute..... are you saying Jesus was immortal, then mortal, then back to immortal again? Doesnt make sense, does it. .....

Would you want to throw rocks at Jesus?

What???

 

[Mr. Beebe]

What???

when Jesus told them: "Before Abraham was, I am" ,,,,,,,like you,,they didn't believe Him, and picked up stones to throw at him.... John 8:58,59

Isaiah 54:5 says "the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer" Jesus is the Redeemer.

Next,,, I would have to ask, are you are an Idolater? Because if you worship something that was a creation,, then that qualifies you as an Idolater.

So,,, why would you worship something that was created? Where in scripture are we ever told to worship anything that is created? None exists!

Philippians 2:6 tells us Jesus,, "being in the form of God did not consider it robbery to be equal with God." So my friend,,Jesus is fully God. I'm sorry you don't think so.

 

[moorea944]

when Jesus told them: "Before Abraham was, I am" ,,,,,,,like you,,they didn't believe Him, and picked up stones to throw at him.... John 8:58,59

Isaiah 54:5 says "the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer" Jesus is the Redeemer.

Next,,, I would have to ask, are you are an Idolater? Because if you worship something that was a creation,, then that qualifies you as an Idolater.

So,,, why would you worship something that was created? Where in scripture are we ever told to worship anything that is created? None exists!

Philippians 2:6 tells us Jesus,, "being in the form of God did not consider it robbery to be equal with God." So my friend,,Jesus is fully God. I'm sorry you don't think so.

when Jesus told them: "Before Abraham was, I am" ,,,,,,,like you,,they didn't believe Him, and picked up stones to throw at him.... John 8:58,59

I already explained that verse. You take it out of context.

Isaiah 54:5 says "the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer" Jesus is the Redeemer.

I already explained this verse, You take it out of context. It's talking about God in these verses. It's not even a future prophecy, it's just talking about God...... why do you want to change that?

Next,,, I would have to ask, are you are an Idolater? Because if you worship something that was a creation,, then that qualifies you as an Idolater.

Now we're just talking stupid....

So,,, why would you worship something that was created? Where in scripture are we ever told to worship anything that is created? None exists!

Here's who I worship, which is completely different from you. I worship Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jabac. I also worship Jesus, but to the Glory of God. I know that you wont understand that.

Philippians 2:6 tells us Jesus,, "being in the form of God did not consider it robbery to be equal with God." So my friend,,Jesus is fully God. I'm sorry you don't think so.

I've alread explained this verse. You take it out of context. Read the next verse! lol

 

[Mr. Beebe]

I already explained that verse. You take it out of context.

Like I said,, you would have been looking for a rock to throw at Jesus, just as those who agree with you were. No doubt about it.

 

[Mr. Beebe]

Yes. Why would you have to say that he existed before he was born?

Let's just examine the Biblical evidence and just who YOU agree with.

"Then the Jews said to Him, 'You are not yet 50 years old, and have you seen Abraham." John 8:57

Jesus said to them, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" John 8:58

Then they took up stones to throw at Him. John 8:59

So,, no doubt about it,, you have taken the same exact position as those who despised Jesus and sought His death.

You have been uncovered.

 

[metis]

Jesus is God.

You still have not answered the question as to how can Jesus be God if your scriptures have it that Jesus is sitting on God's right hand. And then, besides not answering that question, you then turn around and judge people who do not agree with you on how Isaiah 43 could be interpreted. Jesus said "judge ye not...", but apparently what he said seems to be meaningless to you.

 

[moorea944]

Like I said,, you would have been looking for a rock to throw at Jesus, just as those who agree with you were. No doubt about it.

lol If you say so... lol

 

[e.r.m.]

I find your delineation between rules and commands to be a bit specious if not circular. In any event, Jesus narrowed down his rules/commands to just two: Love God. Love everyone else. Everything else would be a "rule" by your definition but is just superfluous by mine. When your decisions about others are guided purely by love, you just don't need anything else. For man, this is impossible. With God, all things are possible.

About baptism being required from the subsequent conversation... You can't take what's being said to one person or even a group of persons and infer that everyone has to follow the same path. Doing so devolves baptism into a work rather than an appeal to God for a clean heart. Don't limit the Spirit. Nothing is required, but to love everyone.

Not true. Jesus's commands are not just to love God and others. Jesus gave many more commands, including but not limited to
Luke 9:23 If anyone... he must...

Luke 14:33 So then, none of you can... who does not...

Matthew 28:19 and Go make disciple, baptizing them.. and teach them (the disciples) to obey all I have commanded you.

You make the classical error of switching when Jesus and Paul summarized all commands
Matthew 7:12, 22:49, Romans 13:9, with the actual commands. They said all commands are summed up or hang on these two commands. They didn't say these are the only two commands. The other commands are real commands.

Peter and others made the "commands" on baptism universal to everyone Matthew 28:19-20, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38-39.

Good luck in substantiating scripturally that baptism is a work on the basis that it's a standard command to all.

 

[Intojoy]

Not true. Jesus's commands are not just to love God and others. Jesus gave many more commands, including but not limited to
Luke 9:23 If anyone... he must...

Luke 14:33 So then, none of you can... who does not...

Matthew 28:19 and Go make disciple, baptizing them.. and teach them (the disciples) to obey all I have commanded you.

You make the classical error of switching when Jesus and Paul summarized all commands
Matthew 7:12, 22:49, Romans 13:9, with the actual commands. They said all commands are summed up or hang on these two commands. They didn't say these are the only two commands. The other commands are real commands.

Peter and others made the "commands" on baptism universal to everyone Matthew 28:19-20, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38-39.

Good luck in substantiating scripturally that baptism is a work on the basis that it's a standard command to all.

The law of Christ has many commands that are just that, they are not optional.

They are not the means of salvation but are the rule of live for the already eternal saved members of His body.

 

[e.r.m.]

The law of Christ has many commands that are just that, they are not optional.

They are not the means of salvation but are the rule of live for the already eternal saved members of His body.

Agreed. Except, of course, where certain commands are linked to getting saved.

 

[Mr. Beebe]

The law of Christ has many commands that are just that, they are not optional.

I'm just wondering if everybody here is on the same page with what, "the law of Christ" actually is???

The Law of Christ is bearing each others burdens.....Galatians 6:2

 

[Intojoy]

I'm just wondering if everybody here is on the same page with what, "the law of Christ" actually is???

The Law of Christ is bearing each others burdens.....Galatians 6:2

most Christians are taught that there are only two laws but there are hundreds

 

[Intojoy]

Agreed. Except, of course, where certain commands are linked to getting saved.

There are none

 

[e.r.m.]

There are none

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 16:31 and they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

 

[atpollard]

There are none

Now you stepped in it.

 

[Intojoy]

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 16:31 and they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

That's for the Jews who committed the sin of Matthew 12, the national rejection by Israel of the Messiahship of Yeshua based on demon possession.

The Mikva or baptism was the way in which Jews would identify with a teacher, teaching or movement. Yeshua identified with the teaching of John the Baptist by baptism.

The remission of sin by identifying with Yeshua as the Jewish Messiah would deliver the Jews from the prophecy of the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem.

Salvation is by grace alone thru faith alone in the death, burial and resurrection of Yeshua plus nothing.

 

[metis]

The idea that one is "saved" by merely having one politically-correct belief is so bizarre, plus even James, Paul and Jesus refute that ('like cymbals clashing"; "faith, hope, and love, and the greatest of these is love; Parable of the Sheep & Goats and the Sermon On the Mount)".

The danger of such a belief is that it can lead a person to believe (s)he is "saved" and, therefore, do pretty much whatever they want. Unfortunately, we've all seen people who do indeed act and talk just like that.

 

[e.r.m.]

That's for the Jews who committed the sin of Matthew 12, the national rejection by Israel of the Messiahship of Yeshua based on demon possession.

The Mikva or baptism was the way in which Jews would identify with a teacher, teaching or movement. Yeshua identified with the teaching of John the Baptist by baptism.

The remission of sin by identifying with Yeshua as the Jewish Messiah would deliver the Jews from the prophecy of the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem.

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Baptism/immersion in Jesus name for the forgiveness of sins was given for all whom the Lord our God will call. God called gentiles as well as Jews.

Salvation is by grace alone thru faith alone in the death, burial and resurrection of Yeshua plus nothing.

The Bible never says that. It's all inferred.