The U.S. was not founded as a Christian nation.

[kai]

whether the founding fathers were deists,theists pan-atheists, or any thing else you want to call them is i think irrelevant. What is relevant is what they intended for the birth of the nation was it intended to be secular?

 

[lilithu]

whether the founding fathers were deists,theists pan-atheists, or any thing else you want to call them is i think irrelevant. What is relevant is what they intended for the birth of the nation was it intended to be secular?

Like everything else, I don't think that the founding fathers were all of one mind on this. For example, Patrick Henry did NOT intend for the U.S. to be secular. There was disagreement. However, I think that those who intended for the U.S. to be secular won out. And what's more, I think those who intended for the U.S. to be secular are the ones whom we more often admire.

 

[kai]

Like everything else, I don't think that the founding fathers were all of one mind on this. For example, Patrick Henry did NOT intend for the U.S. to be secular. There was disagreement. However, I think that those who intended for the U.S. to be secular won out. And what's more, I think those who intended for the U.S. to be secular are the ones whom we more often admire.

well i am of the opinion that because of the influence of religion in England in particular the idea was not to let that happen in the Americas, the freedom of people to worship but not to be governed on religious concepts, or for religion to be a prerequisite of any badge of office.

 

[lilithu]

well i am of the opinion that because of the influence of religion in England in particular the idea was not to let that happen in the Americas, the freedom of people to worship but not to be governed on religious concepts, or for religion to be a prerequisite of any badge of office.

Yeah, that's what eventually won out. My point is that there was a diversity of opinions on the matter.

In school here in the U.S. we are taught the myth that our country was founded by pilgrims who came from England fleeing religious persecution, and as a result the U.S. is secular. In reality, the pilgrims came to the "New World" because they didn't think that English Anglicanism went far enough in terms of reforming the Catholic church. They weren't necessarily persecuted in England. It was more the case that they didn't want to be around people who weren't devoted enough and so they went to America to found a new "City on the Hill." A new Jerusalem. Virginia was founded as an Anglican/Episcopalian colony. Maryland was founded as Catholic. Several of the original colonies had established churches (ie - state sanctioned religions). And a lot of people wanted to keep it that way. It was only because of the foresight of a few wise and far-sighted men, Madison and Jefferson chief among them, that the U.S. constitution ended up upholding the separation of church and state.

 

[kai]

Yeah, that's what eventually won out. My point is that there was a diversity of opinions on the matter.

In school here in the U.S. we are taught the myth that our country was founded by pilgrims who came from England fleeing religious persecution, and as a result the U.S. is secular. In reality, the pilgrims came to the "New World" because they didn't think that English Anglicanism went far enough in terms of reforming the Catholic church. They weren't necessarily persecuted in England. It was more the case that they didn't want to be around people who weren't devoted enough and so they went to America to found a new "City on the Hill." A new Jerusalem. Virginia was founded to as an Anglican/Episcopalian colony. Maryland was founded as Catholic. Several of the original colonies had established churches (ie - state sanctioned religions). And a lot of people wanted to keep it that way. It was only because of the foresight of a few wise and far-sighted men, Madison and Jefferson chief among them, that the U.S. constitution ended up upholding the separation of church and state.

very interesting!

 

[Charity]

U.S. WAS NOT FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION.:thud::faint:

Now I know what is wrong with this country.

 

[Father Heathen]

U.S. WAS NOT FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION.:thud::faint:

Now I know what is wrong with this country.

Yeah, damned so-called "rights", "freedom" and "democracy" ruining everything! Why can't we be more like Iran or Saudi Arabia?

 

[BucephalusBB]

I am so glad the Netherlands accepted that we are a bunch of religions all together so we don't have to fight over something trivial as what religion the people had hundreds of years ago...

 

[Father Heathen]

I am so glad the Netherlands accepted that we are a bunch of religions all together so we don't have to fight over something trivial as what religion the people had hundreds of years ago...

I know you're jealous, so to make up for it I think we should ship over to you some of our evangelists and fundamentalists.

 

[BucephalusBB]

I know you're jealous, so to make up for it I think we should ship over to you some of our evangelists and fundamentalists.

As if they would want to leave their nation of God

 

[Tau]

For those of you who think otherwise, here are the words straight from our founding fathers mouths, in a treaty with Tripoli, drafted in 1796 by George Washington, and signed by John Adams in 1797:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion, as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmenl and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Let's face it, our founding fathers stood head and shoulders above our current crop of religious fanatics in government, in both wisdom and intelligence. We need more people like this in government.

The original US governments were shining examples of democracy.

I would have been proud to be an american, but now I am glad I am not, shame as a kid I used to aspire to work in the US, for NASA if I could have, as I was a keen space fan and quite inventive.
Many British scientists and europeans as well went to work for better pay across the water, the great brain drain of the 70s and 80s, not now so much though...

I read somewhere that the legend 'In God we trust' was only a recent addition to what was printed on your paper currency?

Edit:
Why not reset your entire legislative, delete all ammendments to the constitution?

Or form a type of Federation and move away from centralised government, like the EU.

 

[Father Heathen]

I read somewhere that the legend 'In God we trust' was only a recent addition to what was printed on your paper currency?

Yeah, the phrase was added in 1957 during the time of McCarthyism, or "The Red Scare". Here is an interesting link.

 

[alpha&omega]

masons founded the usa,all religion as long as its monothiastics r equaly excepted.pentagrams,octogons and other esotric sybolism and not cristian but religious for sure,records stii intact list i believe 26 members of th fifty sothin who drafted the declaration of independants where masons,washington is a big symbol off the holy mother,pentagon sorounded by a pentagram.certain state buildings all have old testament images.ie ark of the covenent.

 

[BucephalusBB]

masons founded the usa,all religion as long as its monothiastics r equaly excepted.pentagrams,octogons and other esotric sybolism and not cristian but religious for sure,records stii intact list i believe 26 members of th fifty sothin who drafted the declaration of independants where masons,washington is a big symbol off the holy mother,pentagon sorounded by a pentagram.certain state buildings all have old testament images.ie ark of the covenent.

O wow, I read that post 3 times and after that, just gave up

 

[Tau]

masons founded the usa,all religion as long as its monothiastics r equaly excepted.pentagrams,octogons and other esotric sybolism and not cristian but religious for sure,records stii intact list i believe 26 members of th fifty sothin who drafted the declaration of independants where masons,washington is a big symbol off the holy mother,pentagon sorounded by a pentagram.certain state buildings all have old testament images.ie ark of the covenent.

Masons founded the USA, all monotheistic religions are deemed acceptable.
Mason symbology ie Pentagrams Octogons and other Esosteric symbols are validly religious (possibly rooted in kabbalah and thus Judaism, the root of modern monotheism)
Twenty six signatories of the declaration of independance were masons.
The city of Washington and the Pentagon building that resides at the centre represents a Pentagon within a Pentagon, a symbol of the Holy Mother.
Some state buildings have old testament images inscribed upon them, for example the ark of the covenant on one particular building.

There ya go I tidyed it up for ya..ppl couldn unnerstan...

 

[Scott1]

Yeah, the phrase was added in 1957 during the time of McCarthyism, or "The Red Scare". Here is an interesting link.

No exactly right....

"The national motto (In God We Trust) originated with Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase during the Civil War. Prompted by a letter from Rev. M. R. Watkinson, of Ridleyville, Pennsylvania asking for a recognition of "the Almighty God in some form in our coins.", Chase requested Congress to pass a law changing the composition of the 2-cent piece to include the motto "In God we trust". The law as passed on April 22, 1864. Eventually the motto appeared on many U.S. coins and currencies.
When the double eagle and eagle of new design appeared in 1907, it was soon discovered that the motto had been omitted. In response to a general demand, Congress ordered it restored, and the act of May 18, 1908, made mandatory its appearance upon all coins which it had heretofore appeared."
USSSP: Great Seal and National Mottos of the U.S.A.

Also of note is the back of the Great Seal of the United States (approved by Congress on June 20, 1782.):

"The unfinished pyramid signifies strength and duration: The eye over it and the motto, Annuit Coeptis (He, [God,] has favored our undertakings), allude to the many interventions of Providence in favor of the American cause."

Guess my time as a scout wasn't TOTALLy worthless.

 

[Charity]

Yeah, damned so-called "rights", "freedom" and "democracy" ruining everything! Why can't we be more like Iran or Saudi Arabia?

Thank you for noticing my post and for you comment "Big Meanie" I sir, am a woman who thrives on attention, and any kind of attention is better than none at all. :curtsy:

Thank you again

 

[Smoke]

U.S. WAS NOT FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION.:thud::faint:

Now I know what is wrong with this country.

One of the major problems is that so many people feel it's their duty to "correct" the sanity of the founders.

 

[lilithu]

I still prefer E. pluribus unum. That is the ideal to which my America aspires.

 

[logician]

Einstein was a panentheist, as am I. Panentheists are NOT atheists.


Are we suggesting that the founding fathers were liars?

Sorry, Einstein was a de facto atheist:

following are his quotes:

"
I am a deeply religious nonbeliever.This is somewhat of a new kind of religion.

I have never implied to nature a purpose or a goal or anything that could be understood to be antropomorphic. What I see in nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very umperfectly , and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism.

But I prefer not to call myself religious because it is misleading. It is destructively misleading because for the vast majority of people, 'religion' implies 'supernatural'.

The idea of a personal god to me is quite alien to me and seems even naive."

As Dawkins has put it

"By "religion", Einstein meant something entirely different than what is conventionally eant."

BTW, our founding fathers can best be termed "secularists", who believed that the religious opinions(or lack thereof) of a president (or any other office) was entirely that person's own business.