The Untold Story: Why do they hate us so much?

[Sunstone]

And now that I've calmed down...

I don't believe America has committed genocide in Iraq, or anything even close to it.

I do think it's important, though, to try to understand terrorism and to work with potential terrorists to better the world - not to simply fight everyone, which will only multiply the evil. People like Osama bin Laden should be captured, and countries like Saudi Arabia should be held to account - but a free for all in Iraq only serves to support terrorism, not diminish it.

Good post! Although I do find it shocking that you fail to grasp the sheer genius of randomly invading Iraq in retaliation for 9/11. Perhaps 24 hours of intensive therapy with Dick Cheney is in order here.

 

[Navigator]

The sooner the finger pointing stops the sooner we can get on with peace.

Rarely do we hear "I made a mistake" from the Muslim world. Instead blaming everyone else as if two wrongs make a right. The first step in fixing any problem is admitting and taking responsibility for your actions regardless if you feel justified.

 

[love]

You seem to be missing a few pictures of the effect of a suicide bomber in the market place or on a bus. Do you think this pleases Allah?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17433717/

Does this sound like they want peace?
What is your answer to world peace?
Should the U.S. call everyone home, close the borders, and say don't bother us and we want bother you. How do you like that Nazi flag flying over your post office? Maybe it would be a good thing if Iraq controlled Kuwait and then went on to control the Middle East and who knows maybe the world, except the U.S.of course.

 

[love]

Oh I am sure it would be an almost perfect world if the Jews were kick out of "Israel". Is this the only rallying point these people have?

 

[PureX]

And now that I've calmed down...

I don't believe America has committed genocide in Iraq, or anything even close to it.

I do think it's important, though, to try to understand terrorism and to work with potential terrorists to better the world - not to simply fight everyone, which will only multiply the evil. People like Osama bin Laden should be captured, and countries like Saudi Arabia should be held to account - but a free for all in Iraq only serves to support terrorism, not diminish it.

We were doing fine in responding to 9/11 until we invaded Iraq. That was just plain stupid, and the end result will be far worse than it is already. We lost all credibility in the world for doing something that colossally stupid and unnecessary, and as the situation completely falls apart there, and we pull out in disgrace, the true depth of our stupidity, and the damage we have done, will be apparent for all the world to see.

Yet even then, many Americans will tell themselves and each other all sorts of idiotic lies in an attempt at not recognizing what a complete and total disaster we have made of Iraq, and what complete idiots and fools we have made of ourselves before the world for invading it. And we therefor will once again (for the third or forth time, now) refuse to learn the necessary lesson: that war is not a political tool. That an occupation is not a war, and so cannot be "won", and that we can't make other people do what we want them to by force.

 

[NoahideHiker]

We were doing fine in responding to 9/11 until we invaded Iraq. That was just plain stupid, and the end result will be far worse than it is already. We lost all credibility in the world for doing something that colossally stupid and unnecessary, and as the situation completely falls apart there, and we pull out in disgrace, the true depth of our stupidity, and the damage we have done, will be apparent for all the world to see.

Yet even then, many Americans will tell themselves and each other all sorts of idiotic lies in an attempt at not recognizing what a complete and total disaster we have made of Iraq, and what complete idiots and fools we have made of ourselves before the world for invading it. And we therefor will once again (for the third or forth time, now) refuse to learn the necessary lesson: that war is not a political tool. That an occupation is not a war, and so cannot be "won", and that we can't make other people do what we want them to by force.

I agree. Iraq was a horrible mistake and weakens our position for the future. There are no "mulligans" in global politics.

I'm not an isolationist but at the same time I don't think we can feed Israel to the wolves either. Israel has the right to exist as well as protect itself. If any other country in the world was taking daily rocket attacks from it's neighbors they'd have every right to retaliate. But everyone condemns Israel. Every other nation has the right to secure their own borders yet Israel is oppressive when it tries to stop people from entering illegally.

While Israel is not blameless and has made mistakes and will continue to this does not mean they should give in to terrorism nor does it excuse terrorist acts.

If israel's enemies lay down their arms there'd be peace. If Israel lays down it's arms there'd be no more Jews.

 

[Djamila]

You really believe if the Palestinian people stopped fighting, there would be peace?

Israel has done nothing but expand since it was established by the European powers after WWII. Israel is still pushing settlements deeper and deeper into the West Bank and until it is stopped, permanantly, it is not safe for the Palestinians to put down their weapons.

As it stands, the Palestinians a people slated for destruction. If they weren't fighting, the Gaza Strip would still be occupied, illegal Israeli settlements would still be growing there - and despite what they've gained there, there's still not much hope they'll ever be allowed to return to their homes and live in peace, as they did prior to the arrival of European, Jewish settlers. So they fight - they're not going to lie down and die like dogs, without a word.

And, I pray, one day they'll be successful. Israel will be stopped, and Arabia will be safe from colonization. We've seen the effects of that in Africa - it's never good, and the colonists never win.

 

[PureX]

Israel is Israel's problem. Israel is not our 51st state, and we need to stop treating it as if it were. The original "neo-cons" in America were mostly a bunch of zionist authors and businessmen who deliberately sought political influence in republican party of the U.S. government to further their own pro-zionist agenda. THIS IS WHY WE INVADED IRAQ, for those of you who have not yet heard.

We need to weed this zionist neo-con influence out of the republican party and out of our govenrment before they do even more damage (they would very much like to see us start a war with Iran, now).

 

[NoahideHiker]

Israel is Israel's problem. Israel is not our 51st state, and we need to stop treating it as if it were. The original "neo-cons" in America were mostly a bunch of zionist authors and businessmen who deliberately sought political influence in republican party of the U.S. government to further their own pro-zionist agenda. THIS IS WHY WE INVADED IRAQ, for those of you who have not yet heard.

We need to weed this zionist neo-con influence out of the republican party and out of our govenrment before they do even more damage (they would very much like to see us start a war with Iran, now).

Exactly! They are not our 51st state and we need to treat them as such. Such as pushing peace plans that work, forcing them to make concessions to their enemies and generally treating them like a state. They are a nation. Yes we give them aid but we also give everyone else aid as well.

 

[MaddLlama]

The problem is that both sides are feeding the problem. If US foriegn policy is so absolutely dispicable, there are other, and far better ways of getting your point accross than violence. That isn't solving the problem at all, it just makes the problem worse, and just reenforces the steroype.

 

[NoahideHiker]

You really believe if the Palestinian people stopped fighting, there would be peace?

Israel has done nothing but expand since it was established by the European powers after WWII. Israel is still pushing settlements deeper and deeper into the West Bank and until it is stopped, permanantly, it is not safe for the Palestinians to put down their weapons.

As it stands, the Palestinians a people slated for destruction. If they weren't fighting, the Gaza Strip would still be occupied, illegal Israeli settlements would still be growing there - and despite what they've gained there, there's still not much hope they'll ever be allowed to return to their homes and live in peace, as they did prior to the arrival of European, Jewish settlers. So they fight - they're not going to lie down and die like dogs, without a word.

And, I pray, one day they'll be successful. Israel will be stopped, and Arabia will be safe from colonization. We've seen the effects of that in Africa - it's never good, and the colonists never win.

Your comments are very telling because it shows that the majority of even the most moderate Muslim seek the destruction of Israel. I would think that a Bosnian of all people would understand the importance of a nation's soverance.

 

[Djamila]

Your comments are very telling because it shows that the majority of even the most moderate Muslim seek the destruction of Israel. I would think that a Bosnian of all people would understand the importance of a nation's soverance.

A Bosnian, of all people, knows exactly what the Palestinians are going through.

Half of my country is now the Republika Srpska (Republic of Serbs). Our cities were conquered and their people driven away. Bosanski Brod because Srpski (Serbian) Brod, Foca became Srbinje (Serb's Place), just as Jaffa became Tel Aviv.

I don't seek the destruction of Israel, I seek to stop the destruction of Palestine.

 

[NoahideHiker]

I don't seek the destruction of Israel, I seek to stop the destruction of Palestine.

Even though it is growing and reciving more land from Israel and a recognized state by Israel?

Yeah, keep telling yourself that.

 

[Djamila]

The "Welcome to Sarajevo" sign was changed a few years ago to reflect our views, in a ceremony officiated by Jakov Finci - leader of Bosnia's Jews.

It's not about hatred for Israel, it's about an absence of the necessary hatred you need to hold towards Palestinians, or Muslims in general, to support Israeli policies.

Thus:

 

[Djamila]

Even though it is growing and reciving more land from Israel and a recognized state by Israel?

Yeah, keep telling yourself that.

Likewise. You can't illegally occupy someone's home for 35 years, give them the back porch back, and act like you're doing right.

 

[NoahideHiker]

The "Welcome to Sarajevo" sign was changed a few years ago to reflect our views, in a ceremony officiated by Jakov Finci - leader of Bosnia's Jews.

It's not about hatred for Israel, it's about an absence of the necessary hatred you need to hold towards Palestinians, or Muslims in general, to support Israeli policies.

Thus:

So now my support for the nation of Israel and it's rights to defend itself is equated with automatic hatred for muslims and Palestinians? Your misrepresentation of my character is a great disappointment to me Djamila.

 

[Djamila]

So now my support for the nation of Israel and it's rights to defend itself is equated with automatic hatred for muslims and Palestinians? Your misrepresentation of my character is a great disappointment to me Djamila.

Not necessarily, it could be complete and total ignorance of what Israeli policies actually include - which seems most likely, in your case, from my experiences with you.

I don't think you would cheer on Israeli soldiers if you spent a day following them around in Nablus. I don't think you'd support the settlement policies if you saw what happens to the people living in an area where the Israeli government decides to build one.

I think, in your case, you just have little or no idea about what's actually happening in the occupied territories.

Which is, in my opinion, somewhat worse - especially in vocal supporters of these policies.

 

[love]

Your comments are very telling because it shows that the majority of even the most moderate Muslim seek the destruction of Israel. I would think that a Bosnian of all people would understand the importance of a nation's soverance.

I agree. The Jewish people have no other place on earth they can call home. They get attacked and take land for defense purposes and then give back, and give back to try and make peace. Their adversaries mistake this for weakness and only become more aggressive willing to settle only for their total destruction. What happen to the old Palestine that reached into Turkey and Jordan? There is no vast oil reserves, water is only 1% of the total area but look what the Israelites have managed to do with this small amount of land. Is it an international Muslim effort to see the destruction or Israel?:banghead3
Is this the temple wall?

 

[Djamila]

Though I should note there is a certain percentage of hardcore, Muslim haters who have no problem with me, or my people, because we're white. I often know people for a while, even if they know I'm Muslim, before I realize how much they truly hate my faith and its followers.

 

[NoahideHiker]

Not necessarily, it could be complete and total ignorance of what Israeli policies actually include - which seems most likely, in your case, from my experiences with you.

I don't think you would cheer on Israeli soldiers if you spent a day following them around in Nablus. I don't think you'd support the settlement policies if you saw what happens to the people living in an area where the Israeli government decides to build one.

I think, in your case, you just have little or no idea about what's actually happening in the occupied territories.

Which is, in my opinion, somewhat worse - especially in vocal supporters of these policies.

I am very well versed in Israeli politics and the political climit of the Middle East. Calling me ignorant simply exaserbates the insult and disappointment. You have always been one of my favorite people here but I simply feel I have nothing else to discuss with you.

Please take the last word here as I bid you nothing but peace and blessings.