The War on Christmas

[averageJOE]

I like this video:

 

[metis]

I think the problem comes down to how many displays can you allow? Can you allow 14 holiday displays in front of City Hall or is it easier to just allow none? Personally, I don't think any one religion should be represented on gov't property, but I also get that the rule to allow all or none complicates things and makes it far easier for cities and gov'ts to just say no to any, which I don't think represents well either.

But if they do that then they actually do not understand the SCOTUS decisions on this. No where in their decisions does it state that a community must display all religious traditions, but what they do say in general is that a particular religion cannot be denied putting up displays if they so wish, although the community does have the right to state where these displays are to be placed in general.

If there are "14" religious and/or secular groups that want to display theirs, the city will just have to figure out how to make room for all of them, but that doesn't mean they all have to be in the same exact location.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I don't have a problem with it, I just also think it's ridiculous. The move to "Happy Holidays" versus "Merry Christmas" happened because people complained that "Merry Christmas" was offensive because it left them out and, that, I think is stupid. If a person finds offense in being wished a Merry Christmas at Macy's instead of Happy Holidays, then, IMO, they need to get a life.

Is that the actual reason why though? Or was it just stores trying to be more inclusive to a broader range of customers?

 

[columbus]

Can you please provide evidence that the term "merry christmas" is offending people?

I don't know where you'd find statistics. But I have been in retail since 1976. I'm saying that there are alot. Including Christian people themselves.
There are plenty of people who grasp that not everyone is Christian. They don't want to hear a generic, insincere, religious greeting from someone that they don't even know, like a Walmart greeter. They prefer a secular greeting in a secular context.
Tom

 

[Draka]

I already said there was no war on Christmas specifically. I also stated that the move to be 'celebrate/acknowledge all or none' is stupid.

Why is it stupid? Especially in terms of government/public places? It falls under the First Amendment after all.

 

[Ouroboros]

I don't have a problem with it, I just also think it's ridiculous. The move to "Happy Holidays" versus "Merry Christmas" happened because people complained that "Merry Christmas" was offensive because it left them out and, that, I think is stupid. If a person finds offense in being wished a Merry Christmas at Macy's instead of Happy Holidays, then, IMO, they need to get a life.

It wasn't stupid to the Jewish, Muslims, Hindus, and other large religious communities who don't believe in Jesus. They have the right to say "Happy Hanukkah" or such, and the stores (privately owned) have the rights to appeal to all religious communities, not just yours.

 

[Ouroboros]

Can you support this claim that this was the reasoning? I was not aware that it was due to complaints. I thought it was proactive.

And I think it started with the stores like Macy's etc. I vaguely remember something about stores switching the phrase to accommodate more religious communities and not push them away. I know Jews who don't celebrate Christmas and don't buy any stuff, so what should stores do to increase sales? Remove the Christian aspect of the shopping spree of course.

 

[Ouroboros]

Can you please provide evidence that the term "merry christmas" is offending people?

Funny thing. I'm not Christian, but I say Merry Christmas. We celebrate it. We even have a nativity scene in our house. I even say "God bless you" to people if need be, without actually believing in a personal God who can "bless" people. I do these things because it makes me feel good, and it makes other people feel good. And I love the food, ornaments, celebration, etc during Yule.

 

[Ouroboros]

Is that the actual reason why though? Or was it just stores trying to be more inclusive to a broader range of customers?

That's how I remember how it started. I can't remember if I first heard it a Macy's, Nordstroms, or something like that, or perhaps the local food store.

 

[metis]

I only say "Merry Christmas" if I know the person is a Christian or if they say "Marry Christmas" to me. Other than that, I usually say "Have a good holiday" or something like that.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

In all fairness, you can see how even the writing of this article makes it an afterthought, right? They're having to come up with explanations of how and why the "Christmas Tree" fits into to their religious beliefs. They're literally just making up an explanation to justify the continued use of such holiday symbols as part of their religious mentality. That proves right there that Draka is right in suggesting that all of these symbols predate the Christian observance of the season. Now, I do think you're right in saying that this doesn't mean that it's nefarious. But levels of nefarity don't change the fact that one religious practice is having to grandfather-in preChristian symbols because they've recognized that they're pretty much stuck with them.

I don't remember denying that the tree, the wreath, mistletoe and such are from pre-Christian Northern European traditions. I'm just saying that it doesn't matter and that I'm sick of people jumping on Christians for using them, as if we have no right to continue to make use of cultural traditions and symbols of the culture we're from!

 

[jonathan180iq]

I don't remember denying that the tree, the wreath, mistletoe and such are from pre-Christian Northern European traditions. I'm just saying that it doesn't matter and that I'm sick of people jumping on Christians for using them, as if we have no right to continue to make use of cultural traditions and symbols of the culture we're from!

I know. I get what you're saying.

But if certain portions of the Christian population are going to argue that is "their holiday!!" then it does matter, as a point of discussion if nothing else. Everything but their personal sentiment of the season comes from another place; a place that is most decidedly not Christian.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Stating facts does not indicate a chip over any religion. Having to state them over and over indicates an annoyance with those unwilling to learn. Believe what you want. Most people do.

What does the bolded part mean in regards to me? I know the trees and such come from pre-Christian European traditions. I'm just saying that it doesn't matter and that it's just another example out of very many of cultural syncreticism. But you're hell-bent on seeing something negative in it, despite what reason says. Really you're just psychologically projecting your problem onto me, in regards to that bolded sentence. Not my problem.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I know. I get what you're saying.

But if certain portions of the Christian population are going to argue that is "their holiday!!" then it does matter, as a point of discussion if nothing else. Everything but their personal sentiment of the season comes from another place; a place that is most decidedly not Christian.

Every group has its idiots. Why do people even give them the time of day?

 

[The Hammer]

Do you think the "War on Christmas" is occurring? What are your reasons for or against?

Considering that there are numerous holidays around the same timeframe as "Christmas", no I do not think there is a war on Christmas. What I do see is a scaling back of specific language (Merry Christmas) to a more inclusive language for all (Happy Holidays), because during this same time period we celebrate Yule, Kwanza, Hanukah, Christmas, and New Year's to name a few of the major celebrations. I do see Christians getting themselves in a tizzy over this lack of catering to their specific views and having to also include others, by being more generic.

 

[wizanda]

 

[Rick O'Shez]

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/childrens-holiday-letters-satan

 

[Aset's Flames]

Why? It already has a title, Christmas.

It implies the Christ element in it, which most people do not celebrate it as.

 

[Akivah]

There are many times that local governments have taken down Christmas decorations simply because another religion has requested that they have some decorations as well. So unwilling to allow any representation of any other religion they would rather say no one can rather than acknowledge another faith's holiday. That is when it is an issue. If a place is unwilling to allow equal and free representation of any religion then they should not allow even one religion representation.

A local city took down their Xmas display rather than allow a Satanic group to put up their own religious display. So now, only a Chanukiah is left standing. It's too bad. I've never had the opportunity to see a Satanic display.

 

[Demonslayer]

The War on Christmas has been lost...I watched 2 hours of "The Great Christmas Light Fight" on TV last night. Christmas has prevailed!