The whole Bible is not from God

[Brian2]

I seriously don't understand what you are trying to say -- it certainly makes no sense to me. If the God of the Bible is fictional, then what do I care? I can put Harry Potter down and go the rest of my day without worrying about being hit by an Avada Kedrava curse, because it's fiction.

You do not take God to be fictional -- you say your yourself, in words and in how you portray him. Here's an example:

If you do not think God is fictional, and you think that He is the God of the Bible, then how can you have asked me, as you did: "Where do you say that God in the Bible is not being loving and just?" To which I answered:

I thought it was plain that I was saying that you are being unfair in your judgement of God by just taking individual incidents and not looking at them in the context of what and whom God is said to be in the Bible, and what He is said to be doing.
In those places where you say God is not being loving and just you are judging God in the incident without the other context of whom God is in the Bible and so what He has the right to do, and you have not even considered by a good God would want to kill people.
For you it is as if God is a man and has no right that other men have not and has no long term goals in the things He does and no consideration for the good of anyone in what He does.
You would not get away with doing that in your judgement of people but when it is the God of the Bible it is OK to do that it seems. Why not? You will get the backing of others here who do the same thing and judge the Bible God in the same way.

 

[paarsurrey]

None of the BIBLE was written by man. Though men penned the texts, ALL THE WORDING WAS HIVEN THESE MEN COMES FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT making it INFALLIABLE. WHY is it that the greatest minds in U.S. HISTORY, John Quincy Adamd and John Marshall had no problems with it?

Did Holy Spirit claim to have authored Bible, please? Right?
If yes, then kindly quote from the Holy Spirit, please. Right?
or
Is it only one's accusation against the Holy Spirit, please? Right?

Regards
___________
Previous post page 1

 

[syo]

The whole Bible is not from God. Some people who wrote parts of the Bible were wrong about God. God has never asked us humans to kill each other.

Yes many parts of the Bible is from God, but some parts of the Bible is not from God

Any thoughts? Do you agree og disagree?

I agree.

How to know what is from God in the Bible? That is simple. God is love and just. What is against love and justice is not from God. God is against killing innocent people

God is not love.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I thought it was plain that I was saying that you are being unfair in your judgement of God by just taking individual incidents and not looking at them in the context of what and whom God is said to be in the Bible, and what He is said to be doing.
In those places where you say God is not being loving and just you are judging God in the incident without the other context of whom God is in the Bible and so what He has the right to do, and you have not even considered by a good God would want to kill people.
For you it is as if God is a man and has no right that other men have not and has no long term goals in the things He does and no consideration for the good of anyone in what He does.
You would not get away with doing that in your judgement of people but when it is the God of the Bible it is OK to do that it seems. Why not? You will get the backing of others here who do the same thing and judge the Bible God in the same way.

Let me propose to you a little "thought experiment." The kind of thing that served Einstein so very well.

Let's pretend that you are the most brilliant scientist since Dr. Victor Frankenstein, and have managed to actually create a living human being. Let's make it a female. Because you created her, do you now the right to kill her? She is your creation after all! Or does her being a human being lift her above your rights of property, and give her the right to life of her own, making you a murderer if you killed her?

 

[danieldemol]

Invalid response. try and respond with a valid response to what I asked. Otherwise, the argument is fallacious. I never said the syllogism is invalid or its not logically possible. This must be the eleventh or 15th strawman you are bringing in because you just wish to argue.

It is not a strawman because you described the OP's argument as wholly fallacious when you said, "The whole argument is fallacious." The problem is if it contains a valid syllogism it is at best partially fallacious or at worst mostly fallacious. But to describe the whole argument as fallacious is to throw the valid out with the invalid.

Nice. So internally, the bible says God is good. Internally, its an internal contradiction that you are addressing. That's a good argument if that is what you are doing. But that's not your argument.

The OP doesn't specify whether the belief that God is wholly loving and just comes from the Bible or elsewhere. And for the sake of the argument i don't think it matters because if you believe God is wholly loving and just and you believe the whole bible came from God you have an internal contradiction in your beliefs regardless of whether those beliefs came from the bible or whether you pulled those beliefs out of your buttocks.

Today I don't like parts of it. So that day God didnt reveal the part I don't like. The other parts are Gods words because I like them. nonsensical argument.

That is your strawman, the OP is entirely about what is in accordance with love and justice and what is not. Whether one likes love and justice is coincidental.

In my opinion.

 

[firedragon]

It is not a strawman because you described the OP's argument as wholly fallacious when you said,

Wholly? When did I use that word?

Daniel. Drop this mate. If you want some argument/. Any Argument. If you just love some argument, make it a good topic.

).

 

[danieldemol]

Wholly? When did I use that word?

Daniel. Drop this mate. If you want some argument/. Any Argument. If you just love some argument, make it a good topic.

).

You didn't use that word, I was paraphrasing.

What you said was "The whole argument is fallacious." But only a part of the argument was fallacious, a part (the syllogism) was valid.

So you are partly wrong.

In my opinion.

 

[firedragon]

You didn't use that word, I was paraphrasing.

What you said was "The whole argument is fallacious." But only a part of the argument was fallacious, a part (the syllogism) was valid.

So you are partly wrong.

In my opinion.

You said it was "unsound". How does an argument become "unsound"?

 

[Brian2]

Let me propose to you a little "thought experiment." The kind of thing that served Einstein so very well.

Let's pretend that you are the most brilliant scientist since Dr. Victor Frankenstein, and have managed to actually create a living human being. Let's make it a female. Because you created her, do you now the right to kill her? She is your creation after all! Or does her being a human being lift her above your rights of property, and give her the right to life of her own, making you a murderer if you killed her?

I would say I would not have the right to kill her.

 

[danieldemol]

You said it was "unsound". How does an argument become "unsound"?

It is not demonstrably sound because we can't demonstrate that one of its premises (that God is only loving and just) is true.

For an argument to be demonstrably sound it has to not only have a conclusion which logically follows from its premises, it has to have premises which are demonstrably true.

In my opinion.

 

[firedragon]

It is not demonstrably sound because we can't demonstrate that one of its premises (that God is only loving and just) is true.

So what is that called?

 

[danieldemol]

So what is that called?

It is called not being demonstrably sound.

In my opinion.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I would say I would not have the right to kill her.

And why is that? This is an important question in our dialogue.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

The whole Bible is not from God. Some people who wrote parts of the Bible were wrong about God. God has never asked us humans to kill each other.

Yes many parts of the Bible is from God, but some parts of the Bible is not from God

How to know what is from God in the Bible? That is simple. God is love and just. What is against love and justice is not from God. God is against killing innocent people.

Any thoughts? Do you agree og disagree?

It is your opinion that is choosing what parts of the Bible you choose to believe, and what parts you shouldn't. You're limping between the two sides. Make a commitment. If you believe in the Bible, you have to believe in all of it and accept it as Yahweh's Word. On the flip side, if you choose not to believe it, that's also your choice but being in the middle where you claim to believe some of it is not going to do your spiritual life one iota of good. Yahshua said "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his burden, and follow me." You have to put aside your own opinions.

What did Yahshua our Savior say in Matthew 4:4? "4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of Yahweh."

and in 2 Timothy 3:16:

"Every scripture inspired of Yahweh is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness"

The people in the Bible were inspired by Yahweh's Holy Spirit, they were speaking the Word of Yahweh. They weren't speaking their own words. But deny the Holy Spirit and obviously you will have a hard time believing that any of the Bible is of Yahweh. The Bible contains the incredibly valuable thoughts of Yahweh and His thoughts are far higher than our own.

 

[pearl]

If you believe in the Bible, you have to believe in all of it and accept it as Yahweh's Word.

One thing is to believe, but not 'in', we do not believe in the Bible, we believe in God. If you believe that every word in the Bible is God dictated, then you must believe that God actually 'speaks' words, and the biblical authors took word for word dictation. Really?

 

[Messianic Israelite]

One thing is to believe, but not 'in', we do not believe in the Bible, we believe in God. If you believe that every word in the Bible is God dictated, then you must believe that God actually 'speaks' words, and the biblical authors took word for word dictation. Really?

Hi pearl. Good afternoon. Are you trying to suggest that Yahweh couldn't speak through His people who have the Holy Spirit? Might I suggest you don't believe in the power of the Holy Spirit. The words of the Bible were meticulously copied over the centuries because the Jews recognised the Word as being inspired of Yahweh. Yahweh always spoke His Word through righteous people. He never spoke directly to His people. He always used a spokesman. John 5:37 says: "And the Father that sent me, he hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his form." In terms of the inspiration of the Word, take for example Job 26:7 which tells us that Yahweh hangs the earth on nothing. How did they know this thousands of years ago when they didn't have satellites and space travel? The Word of Yahweh also contains prophesies, some of which have been fulfilled, others have yet to see fulfilment. Did you know for example that the Bible seems to predict a nova of the sun in the last days (Isaiah 30:26)? You cannot say you believe in Yahweh, yet reject the Bible as the Word of Yahweh.

John 14:26 says: "But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you." That's why the prophets and even apostles were able to recall the events that occurred and recount the Word of Yahweh. What does Exodus 4:15 say? "And thou shalt speak unto him, and put the words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do." Yahweh can put His Words in the mouth of his prophets (see Deuteronomy 18:18). Yahweh can do this through the Holy Spirit, also see Mark 13:11.

I have a question for you. Yahshua's words, were they from Yahweh, or simply from Yahshua himself? A clue: "One who does not love Me does not keep My words. And the word which you hear is not Mine, but is the Father's who sent Me." (John 14:24). You have to consider these things. You start trying to break the Bible up and say this is the Word of Yahweh because it agrees with you, and this isn't, because you don't feel it is something Yahweh would've/should've said, you're not going to benefit from seeing Yahweh's complete character and appreciating his mindset and you will fail to accomplish a perfect character.

 

[pearl]

Hi pearl. Good afternoon. Are you trying to suggest that Yahweh couldn't speak through His people who have the Holy Spirit? Might I suggest you don't believe in the power of the Holy Spirit.

I am saying God does not 'speak words', the words are given by those who 'experienced' the Holy Spirit of God and put into words for our benefit.

Word as being inspired of Yahweh.

Yes, the word is inspired, not 'spoken'.

I have a question for you. Yahshua's words, were they from Yahweh, or simply from Yahshua himself? A clue: "One who does not love Me does not keep My words. And the word which you hear is not Mine, but is the Father's who sent Me."

Of course, they were from His Father. My point concerning the 'spoken' word, is that God does not speak in words but through mystic experience as opposed to uttering a word.

 

[Brian2]

And why is that? This is an important question in our dialogue.

I would not really be any better than the one I created, you said we both would be human. It would be as if I had a child. I have no right to kill my child unless allowed by God for some reason.
I would say this thought experiment does not fit exactly the relationship between God and us humans.
And also, we will die anyway and what God does works towards the salvation of people from that death.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I would not really be any better than the one I created, you said we both would be human. It would be as if I had a child. I have no right to kill my child unless allowed by God for some reason.
I would say this thought experiment does not fit exactly the relationship between God and us humans.
And also, we will die anyway and what God does works towards the salvation of people from that death.

The problem I have is this: although I don't believe in God, I believe that deliberately killing innocent people is quite wrong.

You, on the other hand, surrender all such thoughts when they apply to God. For you, if God decided to crush all of your family except yourself under his thumb, and leave their crushed bodies with guts tumbling out onto your carpet, you would think it must be right because God did it.

I cannot accept that. Period, end of story. But that is precisely what God is said to have done in many places throughout the Bible, and so you don't think anything is wrong. For you, you believe that God has an absolute right to do whatever cruel thing to you that he likes, and he would still be righteous. To me, that would require me to live in perpetual terror -- and I could never, even in my wildest dreams, worship anything that I had to spend my life in fear of.

More to my point, I believe that it would be wrong -- even for God -- to deliberately cause suffering and death to innocents. Now, there is nothing to say that a deity must always be good, but I maintain that the deity that does evil is evil itself, and therefore not worthy of worship.

In any case, since I don't believe in deities any more than I believe in fairies at the bottom of my garden, I have nothing to worry about.

 

[Muffled]

The whole Bible is not from God. Some people who wrote parts of the Bible were wrong about God. God has never asked us humans to kill each other.

Yes many parts of the Bible is from God, but some parts of the Bible is not from God

How to know what is from God in the Bible? That is simple. God is love and just. What is against love and justice is not from God. God is against killing innocent people.

Any thoughts? Do you agree og disagree?

I disagree. I believe killing people is often justice.