The Word is true

[savagewind]

The leaders of Christianity (which is a nation and should be treated as such) teach Jesus said "Go! Make disciples of the nations."

What he really said according to The Holy Spirit helper is "Having gone (you see me going) be for me, with me (later he says he will be with them) as you go home minding your own business and when you find those looking for me baptize them and be with them (do not desert the little one putting faith in me) to teach them.

 

[savagewind]

I think its about time we forgot about messages that have / could have been very distorted . Human make errors , exaggerate and sometime outright lie if it suits a cause.
We can never know who's divine message is right and who s is wrong.
One thing we all do know regardless .

Good! Did I not prove to anyone Jesus could not have said MAKE DISCIPLES?

Can we agree wisdom is right? What causes growth and peace are good. What causes resistance and the shedding of blood is bad.

Is this right?

Let's just say religion causes problems too heavy for the world to hold. They do not care to get rid of the problem the right way. Isn't this a fact?

 

[savagewind]

People really do teach Jesus said go make the nations believe me. Well, they don't. Do they? Who failed is another thread.

There were relatively few people hearing him as he went (past tense of go) πορευθέντες but they say it means You go! make disciples. The real world that would have resulted by hearing him say "I am going you keep being disciples of me as you do in every nation (there is no country for me) you will find people who want me. When you do baptize them"....."How?" "In the name of The Father The Son and The Holy Spirit and teach them.Where two or more are gathered for my name I am there too."

I shall share one troll thought about that. They say Jesus will come back sOON to judge the world. It is (we can't decide on an adjective) obvious the world is not fit for trial;.

 

[savagewind]

In my country there is a law about people who can't be tried in a court of law because of their mental condition. The mental condition of The World makes in unfit for trial. I think the last 2000 years was for making it fit. It's not.

 

[savagewind]

The world is a living organism. People for the truth are the people for a healthy organism. Anything promoted in the world that is not truth is for an unhealthy organism.

When cancer was not known about it killed people. Then science discovered it's cause but early treatments were achaic and did not improve the life of the person. Even now treatment is very difficult and sometimes the treatment causes death.

If Jesus did not say go make disciples then it's a lie. A lie must be removed so that the organism won't die. Not treating it will cause the organism to die but treatment might cause the organism to die.

What will happen and it is what is being prophesied is that the nations WILL attempt to remove the cancer. But they do not know how so what they do is highly unlikely to work. Even if it did work healthy flesh will be removed along with the deceased flesh. This is not good in God's eyes.

So the QUESTION is when the nations remove the healthy flesh who will be guilty of the death of the innocent ones?

Is the doctor guilty?
Is the cancer guilty?
Am I?

Which brings me to another line of thought. If the watchman sees danger coming and does not warn the people, the watchman is also guilty. Knowing that is what causes the Jehovah's Witneses to keep spreading the

 

[savagewind]

The Word they believe in says sin against one commandment you sin against them all. That is why they must keep believing Jesus said go make disciples. If he did not say it they are sinning agianst him and they are not able to believe they are doing it.... even though Jesus also said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains." John 9:41

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Good! Did I not prove to anyone Jesus could not have said MAKE DISCIPLES?

Can we agree wisdom is right? What causes growth and peace are good. What causes resistance and the shedding of blood is bad.

Is this right?

Let's just say religion causes problems too heavy for the world to hold. They do not care to get rid of the problem the right way. Isn't this a fact?

I agree its unlikely Jesus would of commanded anything that would lead to the oppression of others .
Problem now is if we saying one word has been changed and we understand the possible motives why , how can we trust any of it .
"Do unto others*as you would have them do unto you". Do we really need anymore than this .
I know many do not follow this rule . They do onto others daily what they would not tolerate done onto themselves . This could be as simple speculation on the price of a barrel of oil imho - Gambling well we all know what Jesus thought of that .
We now live in a world where the moneychangers now own the tallest most expensive real estate in the cities , accumulated wealth greater than nations .
Religion is a problem because it can put divides between otherwise what are good people.

 

[savagewind]

I agree its unlikely Jesus would of commanded anything that would lead to the oppression of others .
Problem now is if we saying one word has been changed and we understand the possible motives why , how can we trust any of it .
"Do unto others*as you would have them do unto you". Do we really need anymore than this .
I know many do not follow this rule . They do onto others daily what they would not tolerate done onto themselves . This could be as simple speculation on the price of a barrel of oil imho - Gambling well we all know what Jesus thought of that .
We now live in a world where the moneychangers now own the tallest most expensive real estate in the cities , accumulated wealth greater than nations .
Religion is a problem because it can put divides between otherwise what are good people.

Yes. If people are left after the oppressor is removed then believing and keeping do unto others as you would have them do to you for agape and the knowledge that what we sow is important as we or our children will reap what is sown and a love of God The True ONE, is all that is truely needed.

The religion of Jesus Christ Savior of the world is not a problem. So far it cannot be removed from the religious world.

Do we really need more than "do unto others"? I think so. What of people like me who don't have anyone doing to me anything? I need to know I have fellow patriots for God's Kingdom. The only way I am aware of it is The Bible.

 

[savagewind]

What's wrong with the question?

If the transmission of a misunderstood command causes death whose fault is it?

Someone says "do this". Someone hearing it hears "do that" so they do that instead of this. When they do that instead of this they cause trouble for someone else. The someone else fights back with force. Innocent people are killed.

Whose fault is the death of the innocent ones?

In real life the ones who heard do that instead of do this say only the ones who react with violence are at fault. Is that true? Are only crimes against flesh and not against the mind deserving of judgement?

How do you think the originator of the message in the first place feels? Does he consider all those hearing do that instead of do this, which results in violence, not guilty?

What do you think?

 

[savagewind]

Jesus said disciple the nations. I am sure he meant to do as he did which is to find lost sheep. Lost sheep are sheep that were in the flock but are lost. So a disciple's job is to find the sheep not make the sheep. They heard go! Make sheep. And they did. In fact many people answered the cry to go make sheep for Jesus who weren't even Jesus' disciples.

Do I not know History? Are there not many campaigns in which the campaigners' excuse for their bad conduct was the making of disciples for Jesus? What about the American Indian? What did the Christian nation to to them?

When Christians setting out to convert everyone who will be converted tore away the customs of the natives they were trying to convert to the Christian faith, because Jesus told them to make disciples, what happened to some of them? Did anyone get hurt?

Do people still get hurt? I think they do. If someone commits suicide because of the pain of converting to, let's say Jehovah's Witnesses, is the victim alone guilty? Is anyone else guilty?

 

[savagewind]

It's not trolling the Jehovah's Witnesses there was a really nice man on the ex Jehovah's Witness forum. The pain caused him by the Jehovah's Witnesses was too much for him. He killed himself.

The Jehovah's Witnesses make people into disciples for Jesus. They believe they are obeying Jesus command go! make disciples. They believe they are the only ones doing it the right way. How can there be a right way if Jesus didn't say it?

 

[savagewind]

What did Jesus really say that was written down and a part of all scripture inspired? He said I having gone (they killed him) disciple the nations. What's it mean? They were suppose to be a light. Instead they chose to be a hand. People would have been drawn to the light but it was extinguished. People are not drawn to a hand that uses force, coersion, bribes, threats, false promises, bullying, human persuasion, menacing, browbeating, intimidation et cetera.

 

[savagewind]

The thread is about misleading teachings. So I'm sorry for the title. But there would be no debate if there was not a true message. Right? Can't you pretend? Haha I can.

The debate:

An important message was tranmitted to The Earth (that's step one)
Someone wrote it down (step two)
Someone else misconstrued it (step three)
Taught it (step four)
People believed the misconstued message (step five)
The original message was lost
The people believing the misconstrued message live by it (step six)
Them living by it causes restlessness in other people (step seven)
The restlessness causes a lot of bad feelings (step eight)
Bad feelings cause a reaction (step nine)
The reaction causes death (ten)

Who is responsible here?

 

[savagewind]

I shall tell you, and you won't believe me, that it is a historical fact that there are a great many people who blame the messenger by default.

These are even people who claim to love the messenger more than anything or anyone.

Ask them! They will not say it is God's fault. They will say God won't let it happen. Don't you see the math?

 

[savagewind]

Why would they risk everything to prove their righteous devotion? It is because they think that by winning in the end (because they believe they will) they will not be guilty of not making disciples which in fact Jesus never said in the first place.

They are sticking to the Jesus they know because they are being taught Jesus wants more of them. If they forsake the Jesus they know then they will have failed. They can't fail so they stay.

 

[savagewind]

Let's put it into an equation. Shall we?

They say it is not possible for the will of God to be thwarted and everything God says comes true. God's will is for all to be saved and to knowledge come. But God says there will be people who do not do that. If God says there will be people who don't do it there MUST be people who don't do it. Who are they? They can't be the people for whom God said all be saved and to knowledge come because God said there are some that won't. Who are they? Who are the exempt ones? Am I one?

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Why would they risk everything to prove their righteous devotion? It is because they think that by winning in the end (because they believe they will) they will not be guilty of not making disciples which in fact Jesus never said in the first place.

They are sticking to the Jesus they know because they are being taught Jesus wants more of them. If they forsake the Jesus they know then they will have failed. They can't fail so they stay.

If it exists and if its of the nature your assuming it to be , then " they" will be judged and it does not concern you .
If heaven exists well im hoping its not to commercialized when i get there , if you know what i mean . Im to be grateful and flattered when i meet God , be humbled in his presence regardless of grammar God needs to be meeting me half way on everything for our eternal relationship to blossom.
What if its just like earth with all its ugliness but on a much bigger scale .
Why would the Nature of God be any different from the Nature of what it created ?.

 

[savagewind]

If it exists and if its of the nature your assuming it to be , then " they" will be judged and it does not concern you

It does concern me and it concerns my family and all the innocent ones. I am talking innocent in relation to the problem. The problem spreads into violence. Violence affects the Earth and everybody on it.

Light proves God. God is fear inspiring. But lies are darkness. They prove the wicked one. Do you think it is not important, even if "it" doesn't exist, which side you are on? Light or darkness.

 

[savagewind]

Why would the Nature of God be any different from the Nature of what it created ?

You are assuming God has a nature. God with a nature are two things. God is ONE.

 

[savagewind]

If heaven exists well im hoping its not to commercialized when i get there , if you know what i mean

I am not sure I know what you mean. Are there really people who think Heaven is commercialized? You must tell me what that means please.