The wrath of God

[viole]

Or, more likely you have no clue what God is doing and don't care to find out.

Don’t need to find out. He has not clue what is doing. That is pretty obvious.

Ciao

- viole

 

[InChrist]

The opposite of 'skeptical' is very often 'gullible'.

There is nothing 'out of context' in pointing to the God of the bible commanding invasive wars. The only fault alleged against those invaded is that they belonged to another tribe and therefore had their own tribal god. (It will not have escaped your notice that Yahweh began as a tribal god, making [his] covenant only with the one tribe.)

There is nothing 'out of context' in citing the occasions in the Tanakh where Yahweh is the instigator of human sacrifices, leading to two last-minute reprieves (Isaac, Jonah) and eight completed sacrifices (Jephthah's daughter, the seven sons of Saul). The NT is one long glorification of human sacrifice.

There is nothing 'out of context' in pointing out that nowhere in the bible is there a word against slavery ─ Paul tells slaves to be good and obedient, the Torah sets out rules for owning and bonking slaves, how to sell your daughter into slavery &c.

There is nothing 'out of context' in drawing attention to Yahweh directing massacres of conquered populations except the virgins, who are to be divided up among the troops.

There is nothing 'out of context' in remarking on Yahweh's homophobia, violent religious intolerance, and concept of women as property.

And so on.

It's not as if Yahweh were doing anything that the other gods of the Bronze Age and early iron age were not. But as examples of divine morality they're all grossly repulsive.

I have a reasonable outline of ancient history and ancient cultures. I see religions as part of the history. I find fault with the idea that one particular deity of the era is to be protected from criticism ─ not least when [his] own book sets out the details.

And please state clearly for the record what 'God's eternal purpose' is, and how you know.
The one who can't see past the hero to the deeds attributed to [him], and who's only there to devise excuses for the inexcusable, isn't even looking for an accurate account of what actually happened in history ie the truth, no?

The scriptures reveal God's eternal purpose. If you have read the scriptures what would you conclude the eternal plan and purpose is?


If you would like to pick ONE subject at a time off your list. to discuss..

-The only fault alleged against those invaded is that they belonged to another tribe and therefore had their own tribal god.
-Yahweh is the instigator of human sacrifices
- slavery
- conquered populations except the virgins, who are to be divided up among the troops.
-Yahweh's homophobia
-violent religious intolerance
-concept of women as property.

I may be interested, otherwise to address all your points at once and together leads to posts which become way too long and involved.
You may think about it and I'll do the best I can at responding, though, the next couple of weeks are going to busy with other obligations for me.

 

[InChrist]

Yes. What would you expect? Jesus was a Jew and he believed what he'd been taught. I'm not denying Jesus words.. I am saying the global flood was a myth from Sumer that predates Genesis by a thousand years and there is ample evidence of that.

Your faith should not be shattered if you appreciate the stories as didactic literature. :Look beyond the fairy tale to its meaning.

I'm not worried about my faith being shattered. When someone is saved and delivered from darkness as I was by Jesus, I'm not about to leave Him or rather He is not about to lose me. I see no comparison between God's word and fairy tales. Sad that you do.

 

[sooda]

I'm not worried about my faith being shattered. When someone is saved and delivered from darkness as I was by Jesus, I'm not about to leave Him or rather He is not about to lose me. I see no comparison between the God's word and fairy tales. Sad that you do.

The Bible stories are teaching narratives.. they are NOT history.. They never happened. The Hebrews borrowed myths from surrounding cultures and adapted them to create a history and identity for themselves. They borrowed from Sumer, Babylon, Egypt, Persia and the Ugarit.

 

[blü 2]

The scriptures reveal God's eternal purpose.

Then what is it? You claim to know, so spell it out clearly.

If you would like to pick ONE subject at a time off your list. to discuss..

That's small-picture stuff. You referred to 'purpose', singular ─ the big picture. Let's hear it.

I may be interested, otherwise to address all your points at once and together leads to posts which become way too long and involved.

Please start with human sacrifice.

But first, 'God's eternal purpose'.

 

[InChrist]

Don’t need to find out. He has not clue what is doing. That is pretty obvious.

Ciao

- viole

How can you assume that? I am asking because I am seriously interested in understanding your thinking. If there is a Being who created the heavens and the earth, One who is actually omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient, how do you feel you as a finite being can legitimately say such a Being has no clue?

 

[InChrist]

The Bible stories are teaching narratives.. they are NOT history.. They never happened. The Hebrews borrowed myths from surrounding cultures and adapted them to create a history and identity for themselves. They borrowed from Sumer, Babylon, Egypt, Persia and the Ugarit.

I know they are narratives, but I believe they are historical narratives and Jesus and the apostles treated them as such. I do not agree with your perspective and think it is faulty. We can disagree.

 

[sooda]

I know they are narratives, but I believe they are historical narratives and Jesus and the apostles treated them as such. I do not agree with your perspective and think it is faulty. We can disagree.

Are you familiar with Dilmun or Ugarit.. How about Byblos or Baalbek? There is much, much more... much older history that predates the Hebrews by thousands of years.

Did you think that Jesus and the Apostles were NOT men of their time. They believed what they were taught and what all the Hebrews believed.

 

[Jainarayan]

The great Jehovah smackdown, on WWE?

Tag team.

 

[InChrist]

Then what is it? You claim to know, so spell it out clearly.
That's small-picture stuff. You referred to 'purpose', singular ─ the big picture. Let's hear it.
Please start with human sacrifice.

But first, 'God's eternal purpose'.

God is calling out people from the world, from this temporal earth to an eternal new heaven and earth. Any who desire live in His love and love others, free of sin and it's damaging impact.

 

[Jainarayan]

This attribute and capacity appears to be very important to God to the point that He will not violate human freedom to force someone to change against their will because Love must include freedom

Yet he'll fry them for all eternity because they don't play by his rules or do what he wants?

Yeah, uh no...

I'll live the best life I can because it's the right thing to do. Not because "my loving father" tells me if I don't he's going to fry me.

Carrot, meet stick.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

IF the creator is perfect - then why the imperfections? Yes some evil and sufferings exist because certain individuals make poor choices - BUT what about those that are born mentally retarded? Or go on to develop Multiple Sclerosis or simply get cancer? Are we to presume that they are all sinners that are being punished for their sins? What of babies born with genetic abnormalities? What sin did they commit? to quote @viole

This Biblical Passages tells informs us of this spiritual concept:


Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."

For free will to operate a parameter is needed.

If we turn to the light we are at the apex of what we are, anything less thanthe light is the degrees of darkness.

It is for our benefit to pursue what we can be, God does not need any of His creatures to pursue the light.

Love is the guiding factor;

"O SON OF MAN! Veiled in My immemorial being and in the ancient eternity of My essence, I knew My love for thee; therefore I created thee, have engraved on thee Mine image and revealed to thee My beauty."(Hidden Words Baha'u'llah)

Regards Tony

 

[InChrist]

Are you familiar with Dilmun or Ugarit.. How about Byblos or Baalbek? There is much, much more... much older history that predates the Hebrews by thousands of years.

Did you think that Jesus and the Apostles were NOT men of their time. They believed what they were taught and what all the Hebrews believed.

No, I am not familiar with Dilmun, Ugarit, Byblos, or Baalbek. I'll do some research. Whether there is other or older history that the Hebrews does not alter the fact the God chose to reveal Himself to the Hebrews and create the nation of Israel for His purpose and plan in human history.

Of course I think Jesus and the apostles were men of their time, but I also think Jesus was GOD, the Creator of heaven and earth, who came to earth, live in the flesh among humanity, and instruct the apostles.

 

[InChrist]

Yet he'll fry them for all eternity because they don't play by his rules or do what he wants?

Yeah, uh no...

I'll live the best life I can because it's the right thing to do. Not because "my loving father" tells me if I don't he's going to fry me.

Carrot, meet stick.

You can look at it as frying for not following rules, but I don't. I see pure love, compassion, and freedom. The scriptures also state that God is a consuming fire or a refining fire because God is in the process of making all things pure for eternity. This is the ultimate love to set anyone free from the sin, flaws, imperfections which actually harm and damage. I know even the best I can do needs God's perfect refinement. I am so thankful that He desires to do that and bring me into a beautiful eternity of perfect love.

 

[sooda]

No, I am not familiar with Dilmun, Ugarit, Byblos, or Baalbek. I'll do some research. Whether there is other or older history that the Hebrews does not alter the fact the God chose to reveal Himself to the Hebrews and create the nation of Israel for His purpose and plan in human history.

Of course I think Jesus and the apostles were men of their time, but I also think Jesus was GOD, the Creator of heaven and earth, who came to earth, live in the flesh among humanity, and instruct the apostles.

Nation of Israel was a vassal state for most of its history.

Ugarit

Dilmun - Tilmun - Creation - Aliens - Middle East - Crystalinks

Baalbek 9,000 BC

Byblos 5,000 BC

 

[Jainarayan]

You can look at it as frying for not following rules, but I don't. I see pure love, compassion, and freedom. The scriptures also state that God is a consuming fire or a refining fire because God is in the process of making all things pure for eternity. This is the ultimate love to set anyone free from the sin, flaws, imperfections which actually harm and damage. I know even the best I can do needs God's perfect refinement. I am so thankful that He desires to do that and bring me into a beautiful eternity of perfect love.

How loving is it that God send a soul to eternal fire, from which there is no escape, to purify the soul? Or is it the threat that does the purifying?

 

[ChristineM]

Except, again, it was not murder. The scriptures state it was judgment and righteous judgment by a righteous God who always judges correctly.
Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” Genesis 18:25 The answer displayed throughout the passage and conversation between Abraham and God is YES, the Judge of all the earth does right.

God has chosen by designing humans in His image to give them FREEDOM. This attribute and capacity appears to be very important to God to the point that He will not violate human freedom to force someone to change against their will because Love must include freedom. His desire is to call out people from this temporary world who want an eternal life of real love and freedom.

So killing people is not murder...?... If thats what you have been indoctrinated to believe then who am i to brainwash you?

Correct, he doesnt force them to change, he just murders them for love.

Have you actually understood what you are writing?.

 

[blü 2]

God is calling out people from the world, from this temporal earth to an eternal new heaven and earth. Any who desire live in His love and love others, free of sin and it's damaging impact.

Thanks.

I've no idea why a god would want to do such a thing, but I note that for an omnipotent omniscient perfect being [he's] sure going about it in a weirdly inefficient and ineffectual way.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How loving is it that God send a soul to eternal fire, from which there is no escape, to purify the soul? Or is it the threat that does the purifying?

I see them as warnings for the consequences of our actions and neglect of each other.

I see it as like a parent that tells a child not to put their hand in the fire, it will have consequenses. The fire for us is our own worldy self, the end of darkness. In us is the beginning of light. We have been created to find and love only the light.

Regards Tony

 

[InChrist]

How loving is it that God send a soul to eternal fire, from which there is no escape, to purify the soul? Or is it the threat that does the purifying?

I don't consider hell or eternal fire to be that which God uses to purify. On the contrary, that is only for those who refuse God's love and alternative purification in Christ. The Bible says that eternal fire wasn't even originally created for humans, but satan an the demons. so anyone who ends up there has refused God's love so much so they are to the point of being as evil as the demons.