Theistic evolution as part of a possible simulation with a non-obvious intelligent force

[excreationist]

This is partly based on a scene from the ending of "The Simpsons Game" video game....

If we are in a simulation it would either explicitly simulate billions of years of history (which might lead to the wrong course of history) or begin more recently and perhaps populate the rocks with the fossils we would expect to find. There could be a virtual evolutionary tree that is shown in the fossils. I think there is more variety in life than what might be expected in actual reality.... like all of the flowers and the birds and bees they require.... (though this couldn't be proven)

I think the intelligent force behind the simulation is a non-obvious "God"....

......I think ALL evidence of God and the paranormal can be explained by skeptics as coincidence, delusion, hallucinations, or fraud. According to “God” in Futurama:

GOD: Bender, being God isn't easy. If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope. You have to use a light touch like a safecracker or a pickpocket.

BENDER: Or a guy who burns down the bar for the insurance money.

GOD: Yes, if you make it look like an electrical thing. When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

The final sentence is also repeated right at the end of the episode, after “God” chuckles, which means the show's creators thought it was an important quote.

Evolution seems to involve "chance".....

Related thoughts:

Albert Einstein said:

God does not play dice with the universe

Stephen Hawking replied:

Not only does God definitely play dice, but He sometimes confuses us by throwing them where they can't be seen.

Statistical analysis can be used so that dice throws appear to be completely random but could be intelligently guided. An example of this is from the movie "The Imitation Game". They decoded the Enigma machines and could take advantage of the information but they used statistical analysis (and fabricated stories) so that the Nazis wouldn't suspect that.

So anyway the appearance of fundamental "randomness" means that a non-obvious God has a lot of chances to guide things.... and apparently quantum foam can even involve virtual particles disappearing and appearing.

 

[Frank Fractal]

So you think someone is trying to fool you.
Paranoia is like a cheap radar made in China.
Someone is most certainly trying to fool you.
They are encouraging you to trust your cheap Chinese radar.

 

[SalixIncendium]

So you think someone is trying to fool you.
Paranoia is like a cheap radar made in China.
Someone is most certainly trying to fool you.
They are encouraging you to trust your cheap Chinese radar.

Is it not possible that someone could be you?

 

[Frank Fractal]

Is it not possible that someone could be you?

No, I’m not smart enough to fool someone as smart as me.

 

[Audie]

So you think someone is trying to fool you.
Paranoia is like a cheap radar made in China.
Someone is most certainly trying to fool you.
They are encouraging you to trust your cheap Chinese radar.

Always someone picking on China

 

[shunyadragon]

This is partly based on a scene from the ending of "The Simpsons Game" video game....

View attachment 90483

If we are in a simulation it would either explicitly simulate billions of years of history (which might lead to the wrong course of history) or begin more recently and perhaps populate the rocks with the fossils we would expect to find. There could be a virtual evolutionary tree that is shown in the fossils. I think there is more variety in life than what might be expected in actual reality.... like all of the flowers and the birds and bees they require.... (though this couldn't be proven)

I think the intelligent force behind the simulation is a non-obvious "God"....

Evolution seems to involve "chance".....

Related thoughts:

Albert Einstein said:

Stephen Hawking replied:

Statistical analysis can be used so that dice throws appear to be completely random but could be intelligently guided. An example of this is from the movie "The Imitation Game". They decoded the Enigma machines and could take advantage of the information but they used statistical analysis (and fabricated stories) so that the Nazis wouldn't suspect that.

So anyway the appearance of fundamental "randomness" means that a non-obvious God has a lot of chances to guide things.... and apparently quantum foam can even involve virtual particles disappearing and appearing.

Evolution does not involve chance. Even throws of a dice follow predictable fractal patterns based on Chaos Theory, Ask any Casino owner that is sow they make billions.

There is no such thing as "fundamental Randomness. Everything and every outcome of causes and effect events occur within a limited range determined by Natural Laws and processes. Even at the Quantum scale the nature of outcomes of cause and effect events can be predicted within natural limits by probability.

Our Macro scale Physical Existence is Naturally Deterministic and the variations in ALL outcomes of cause and effect events follow a fractal pattern dependent on the number of variables involved. That is how weather prediction has improved over the years.

 

[excreationist]

Evolution does not involve chance. Even throws of a dice follow predictable fractal patterns based on Chaos Theory, Ask any Casino owner that is sow they make billions.

So if you made an exact clone of the earth a few billion years ago and randomised things around a lot would humans still evolve again and at the same time?

 

[shunyadragon]

So if you made an exact clone of the earth a few billion years ago and randomised things around a lot would humans still evolve again and at the same time?

The fractal nature of the outcome of cause and effect events limits the outcomes, but not absolutely. It you follow the evolution of life on earth. The environment is the driving force, When the environment was right between 3.7 to 4.0 billion years ago at the hydrothermal vents in the newly formed spreading zones it happened, There is actually life began more than once in this environment, and of course one survived. Over the history of life on earth when there was similar environments the physical forms that resulted were similar. More on this later.

Our physical existence is not prone to exact clones. That would be unnatural. How this translates is if similar planets and suns in our universe exist they will have a physical evolution that will be similar and when the environment is suitable life will begin, and the as the environment evolves similar life forms to our world will evolve, and likely intelligent life forms, but not exactly like humans.

We would have fellow intelligent aliens.

 

[excreationist]

.....How this translates is if similar planets and suns in our universe exist they will have a physical evolution that will be similar and when the environment is suitable life will begin, and the as the environment evolves similar life forms to our world will evolve, and likely intelligent life forms, but not exactly like humans.

We would have fellow intelligent aliens.

The following thread is about why we don't find any signs of intelligent life elsewhere (or even any other life at all)

Solutions to the Fermi Paradox

The Fermi Paradox is the thought that there is a high likelihood of extraterrestrial existence, yet there is no evidence for any. What are your solutions to this paradox? I have this in Science and Religion because I'm interested in religious takes as well as scientific ones. The idea that...

www.religiousforums.com

My simulation based explanation is:

Exoplanet - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

it can be hypothesized that there are 11 billion potentially habitable Earth-sized planets in the Milky Way

I believe I'm probably in a simulation/video game and my explanation for the apparent absence of aliens is to keep the costs of the video game (like "The Roy game") low.
Approximating a typical distant star that seems to have 10^57 atoms (1 with 57 zeroes) to a viewer would require a lot less resources than simulating an alien home planet even though the star involves a lot more apparent atoms.

 

[Audie]

So if you made an exact clone of the earth a few billion years ago and randomised things around a lot would humans still evolve again and at the same time?

No

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

This is partly based on a scene from the ending of "The Simpsons Game" video game....

View attachment 90483

If we are in a simulation it would either explicitly simulate billions of years of history (which might lead to the wrong course of history) or begin more recently and perhaps populate the rocks with the fossils we would expect to find. There could be a virtual evolutionary tree that is shown in the fossils. I think there is more variety in life than what might be expected in actual reality.... like all of the flowers and the birds and bees they require.... (though this couldn't be proven)

I think the intelligent force behind the simulation is a non-obvious "God"....

Evolution seems to involve "chance".....

Related thoughts:

Albert Einstein said:

Stephen Hawking replied:

Statistical analysis can be used so that dice throws appear to be completely random but could be intelligently guided. An example of this is from the movie "The Imitation Game". They decoded the Enigma machines and could take advantage of the information but they used statistical analysis (and fabricated stories) so that the Nazis wouldn't suspect that.

So anyway the appearance of fundamental "randomness" means that a non-obvious God has a lot of chances to guide things.... and apparently quantum foam can even involve virtual particles disappearing and appearing.

Well, you are all wrong. You are a Boltzmann Brain off course. Trust me.

 

[excreationist]

Well, you are all wrong. You are a Boltzmann Brain off course. Trust me.

Though maybe that's a form of a simulation as well because there is no world out there just a brain getting apparent sensory data - due to blind chance.....

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Though maybe that's a form of a simulation as well because there is no world out there just a brain getting apparent sensory data - due to blind chance.....

We don't know what objective reality is other than having reality independent of the mind.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

So if you made an exact clone of the earth a few billion years ago and randomised things around a lot would humans still evolve again and at the same time?

No.

 

[Banach-Tarski Paradox]

Evolution does not involve chance. Even throws of a dice follow predictable fractal patterns based on Chaos Theory, Ask any Casino owner that is sow they make billions.

This sounds interesting.

Could you please elaborate on how casinos use fractals and chaos theory to predict the outcomes of throws of a dice?

By the way, I think that Kenny Rogers offers some very good advice.

Kenny Rogers - The Gambler​

 

[shunyadragon]

The following thread is about why we don't find any signs of intelligent life elsewhere (or even any other life at all)

Solutions to the Fermi Paradox

The Fermi Paradox is the thought that there is a high likelihood of extraterrestrial existence, yet there is no evidence for any. What are your solutions to this paradox? I have this in Science and Religion because I'm interested in religious takes as well as scientific ones. The idea that...

www.religiousforums.com

My simulation based explanation is:

This first neglects certain facts of the problems of the search for life on other solar systems.

(1) It is inaccurate that we have not found "signs" of life elsewhere then the the earth. There have been found signs of possible primitive life on Mars and the moons of Jupiter, but current technology cannot confirms this,
(1) The vastness of our universe in time, distances and space limits our ability to make determinations of life elsewhere in the universe.
(3) Origins of life and evolution on earth demonstrate that it is the environment that determines the origins and evolution of lifi,

The problem remains that what you have described "fundamental randomness" does not reflect the reality of natural determinism of nature where there is not "fundamental randomness." and probability does not app[y in your argument. Randomness is not a factor in the outcomes of cause and effect events in nature ,Probability is best reserved for evaluating research and not the nature of our physical existence. See post #6.

 

[Banach-Tarski Paradox]

Our Macro scale Physical Existence is Naturally Deterministic and the variations in ALL outcomes of cause and effect events follow a fractal pattern dependent on the number of variables involved. That is how weather prediction has improved over the years.

This sounds interesting.

Could you please explain in more detail how fractals are used by meteorologists to predict the weather?

Navier-Stokes Equations - Numberphile​

 

[shunyadragon]

There are many ways science is using fractal math (Chaos Theory) to make prediction of many things such as earthquakes, hurricanes, climate warming.

The fractal nature of our physical existence can be observed in many simple ways. For example: All maple leaves, clouds and tiger strips are different, but they all look like Maple Leaves, Clouds and Tiger strips. The variation follows fractal patterns.


As far as weather . . .

Tomorrow's weather: Cloudy, with a chance of fractals

Umbrella or sunscreen? Flood or drought? The secret of flawless weather forecasting turns out to be surprisingly simple

www.newscientist.com

Tomorrow's weather: Cloudy, with a chance of fractals​

By Robert Matthews
4 November 2009

Beautiful prediction
(Image: Kerry Mitchell)


WE’VE all watched those vast heaps of cotton wool float across the sky. Lofted and shaped by updrafts of warm air, cumulus clouds mesmerise with their constantly changing shape. Some grow ever taller, while others wither and die before our eyes. All bear witness to the ceaseless roiling of the ocean of air we call the atmosphere.

About 80 years ago, the British mathematician Lewis Fry Richardson was pondering the shapes of such clouds when a startling thought occurred to him: the laws that govern the atmosphere might actually be very simple.

Even at the time, with scientific meteorology still in its infancy, the idea seemed absurd: key equations governing the behaviour of the 5 million billion tonnes of air above us had already been identified – and they were anything but simple.

No one was more aware of this than Richardson, who is recognised as one of the founders of modern weather forecasting. Even now, the world’s most powerful computers are pushed to their limits extracting predictions of future weather and climate from the equations he wrestled with using pencil and paper.

Yet Richardson suspected that behind the mathematical complexity of the atmosphere lay a far simpler reality – if only we looked at it the right way.

 

[Pogo]

There are many ways science is using fractal math (Chaos Theory) to make prediction of many things such as earthquakes, hurricanes, climate warming.

The fractal nature of our physical existence can be observed in many simple ways. For example: All maple leaves, clouds and tiger strips are different, but they all look like Maple Leaves, Clouds and Tiger strips. The variation follows fractal patterns.


As far as weather . . .

Tomorrow's weather: Cloudy, with a chance of fractals

Umbrella or sunscreen? Flood or drought? The secret of flawless weather forecasting turns out to be surprisingly simple

www.newscientist.com

Tomorrow's weather: Cloudy, with a chance of fractals​

By Robert Matthews
4 November 2009

Beautiful prediction
(Image: Kerry Mitchell)


WE’VE all watched those vast heaps of cotton wool float across the sky. Lofted and shaped by updrafts of warm air, cumulus clouds mesmerise with their constantly changing shape. Some grow ever taller, while others wither and die before our eyes. All bear witness to the ceaseless roiling of the ocean of air we call the atmosphere.

About 80 years ago, the British mathematician Lewis Fry Richardson was pondering the shapes of such clouds when a startling thought occurred to him: the laws that govern the atmosphere might actually be very simple.

Even at the time, with scientific meteorology still in its infancy, the idea seemed absurd: key equations governing the behaviour of the 5 million billion tonnes of air above us had already been identified – and they were anything but simple.

No one was more aware of this than Richardson, who is recognised as one of the founders of modern weather forecasting. Even now, the world’s most powerful computers are pushed to their limits extracting predictions of future weather and climate from the equations he wrestled with using pencil and paper.

Yet Richardson suspected that behind the mathematical complexity of the atmosphere lay a far simpler reality – if only we looked at it the right way.

Ok, I am seconding the question:
How do fractals apply to evolution?

Physically repetitive patterns occur, but I am struggling to understand how this might apply to the observed progression of evolution on earth?:

ETA to modify profession back to progression, the autocorect in my browser is stupid.

 

[excreationist]

There are many ways science is using fractal math (Chaos Theory) to make prediction of many things such as earthquakes, hurricanes, climate warming.

They're not perfect predictions and I'd say this is because they involve chance. Just like dice and evolution. BTW on average a particular number on a dice comes up 1/6 of the time but it is possible for one number to come up ten times in a row....