Theists and the Truth

[Polymath257]

But if you believe He doesn't exist, how can you consider them as threats?
It's illogical.

Dr. Moriarty can make threats towards Shelock Holmes in the *story* even though neither exist.

 

[Stevicus]

Do you believe Trump assaulted this woman, right?

Well... I was not there, so he's his word against hers. I cannot decide.
But that's what I love about afterlife. I will find out the Truth.
And whoever lied or assaulted, will pay in front of God.

That's why Theists have a hope.

I wasn't there either. I've only followed this case on a cursory level, so I don't know all the details.

 

[Truthseeker]

A jury of 12 people said OJ Simpson was innocent.
Shall I believe he's innocent? I don't.

They didn't find that beyond a reasonable doubt. I believe he was not innocent, either. It was the early days of DNA testing, and Simpson paid a lot of money for an expert witness that casted doubt on the DNA evidence. In addition, there is an understandable distrust by black people of the police, and there were a number of black people on the jury.

Trump in the first trial convicted himself with his disposition. I don't think disposition is the right word, what I mean is his testimony before the trial. The second trial was not about whether he was guilty of sexual assault, but solely about defaming E. Jean Carroll's character, of which there is no doubt whatsoever.

 

[Altfish]

I think that what brings all theists (or nearly) together is that they believe that the Truth will be unveiled someday.
Most of them believe that when we die, we find out every thing that was hidden from us in life.
For example, I believe that when I die, God will tell me all the things I want to know about the greatest mysteries of our time.
Whether JFK was really assassinated by the order of the US Deep State; whether the Deep Church killed John Paul I; whether the financial élites of Brussels maliciously boycott the prosperity of European peoples.
That's what my Catholic priest told me when I was little: don't worry, Jesus will answer all your questions, because in the Afterlife there is no deception or lying.


I wonder whether atheists are saddened by the fact that certain truths will never be revealed. In life, I mean.
What do you atheists think of the Truth? The historical Truth?
Do you strive for it?

The trouble is, atheists believe that life is finite, so when after I die, there are unknown things, so be it.
I'm not sure that the 'Truth' is what I strive for, greater knowledge is my aim. I rely on scientists to do that.
The 'historical truth' is all in the past, so we should know it already ... but as is well known, The Victors always write the books.

 

[Estro Felino]

They didn't find that beyond a reasonable doubt. I believe he was not innocent, either. It was the early days of DNA testing, and Simpson paid a lot of money for an expert witness that casted doubt on the DNA evidence. In addition, there is an understandable distrust by black people of the police, and there were a number of black people on the jury.

Everyone knows that the judicial truth is not the historical truth.
Of course, in my vision, there were: -motive, - bloody footprints, - attempted escape, - criminal record of domestic violence; these are precise, severe and matching clues.
But maybe they needed the smoking gun, so they preferred the in dubio pro reo verdict.

Trump in the first trial convicted himself with his disposition. I don't think disposition is the right word, what I mean is his testimony before the trial. The second trial was not about whether he was guilty of sexual assault, but solely about defaming E. Jean Carroll's character, of which there is no doubt whatsoever.

When Jean Carroll tells me the exact day and the exact hour of this crime, I will start changing my mind.
Year, month, day.
Since she didn't do that, it's her word against his.


And by the way...I vividly recall the day of my very first time. Day, month and year. I wrote it in my secret diary.

One should remember the exact day of something so horrific.

 

[Estro Felino]

The trouble is, atheists believe that life is finite, so when after I die, there are unknown things, so be it.
I'm not sure that the 'Truth' is what I strive for, greater knowledge is my aim. I rely on scientists to do that.
The 'historical truth' is all in the past, so we should know it already ... but as is well known, The Victors always write the books.

I appreciate your honesty. In saying that you don't strive for the "Truth".

But...there something that doesn't add up in your speech: if someone harms your loved ones, don't you want this someone to be jailed?
I bet you won't say "the past is past", right?

 

[Trailblazer]

I think that what brings all theists (or nearly) together is that they believe that the Truth will be unveiled someday.

I believe that enough of the Truth has been unveiled, what we need to know now and are able to comprehend, so I am not waiting for anything.
I do not believe that all Truth can be revealed to us because if it was we could not handle it, nor do we have the capacity to understand it..

“Oh, would that the world could believe Me! Were all the things that lie enshrined within the heart of Bahá, and which the Lord, His God, the Lord of all names, hath taught Him, to be unveiled to mankind, every man on earth would be dumbfounded.

How great the multitude of truths which the garment of words can never contain! How vast the number of such verities as no expression can adequately describe, whose significance can never be unfolded, and to which not even the remotest allusions can be made! How manifold are the truths which must remain unuttered until the appointed time is come! Even as it hath been said: “Not everything that a man knoweth can be disclosed, nor can everything that he can disclose be regarded as timely, nor can every timely utterance be considered as suited to the capacity of those who hear it.

Of these truths some can be disclosed only to the extent of the capacity of the repositories of the light of Our knowledge, and the recipients of Our hidden grace.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 176

Most of them believe that when we die, we find out every thing that was hidden from us in life.

I believe we will know a lot more regarding the purpose of this life after we die and go to the next life, but I don't know if we will know 'everything' that was hidden from us in this life. We will surely know that there is another life after this life, but I already know that with absolute certainty. I just don't know what that life will be like!

 

[Altfish]

I appreciate your honesty. In saying that you don't strive for the "Truth".

But...there something that doesn't add up in your speech: if someone harms your loved ones, don't you want this someone to be jailed?
I bet you won't say "the past is past", right?

Hmm
I thought you were talking about 'religious' truth, rather than justice. If my loved ones are hurt, I want justice, yes, and hopefully the truth leads to that.
Again, the past is gone, we know if it correct, or our version of the truth.

 

[Estro Felino]

Hmm
I thought you were talking about 'religious' truth, rather than justice. If my loved ones are hurt, I want justice, yes, and hopefully the truth leads to that.
Again, the past is gone, we know if it correct, or our version of the truth.

Good.
But the point is that if some bad person is unpunished on this Earth, we theists believe there is the otherworldly justice which never fails.
That's the point of this thread.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I think that what brings all theists (or nearly) together is that they believe that the Truth will be unveiled someday.
Most of them believe that when we die, we find out every thing that was hidden from us in life.
For example, I believe that when I die, God will tell me all the things I want to know about the greatest mysteries of our time.
Whether JFK was really assassinated by the order of the US Deep State; whether the Deep Church killed John Paul I; whether the financial élites of Brussels maliciously boycott the prosperity of European peoples.
That's what my Catholic priest told me when I was little: don't worry, Jesus will answer all your questions, because in the Afterlife there is no deception or lying.


I wonder whether atheists are saddened by the fact that certain truths will never be revealed. In life, I mean.
What do you atheists think of the Truth? The historical Truth?
Do you strive for it?

There are things I wish I could know like what caused the universe, or what is beyond our universe if anything etc. or what really happened in the past. But I also value truth, so I am ok with never knowing these answers, and I refuse to make up answers and believe them without good evidence.

 

[Estro Felino]

I believe we will know a lot more regarding the purpose of this life after we die and go to the next life, but I don't know if we will know 'everything' that was hidden from us in this life. We will surely know that there is another life after this life, but I already know that with absolute certainty. I just don't know what that life will be like!

I understand. But in my religion the answer is yes: we will know everything. Because there's no space or time, so anything is knowable.

 

[Trailblazer]

I understand. But in my religion the answer is yes: we will know everything. Because there's no space or time, so anything is knowledgeable.

I do not say we will know everything because I don't know what we will know, but I believe we will have the potential to know a lot more than we know now.
As you said, there is no space or time, so we can go anywhere and do anything. As such, I think our knowledge will continue to increase over time, although it won't be the same kind of time as we have in this world, where time is measured by the sun.

“Those who have passed on through death, have a sphere of their own. It is not removed from ours; their work, the work of the Kingdom, is ours; but it is sanctified from what we call ‘time and place.’ Time with us is measured by the sun. When there is no more sunrise, and no more sunset, that kind of time does not exist for man. Those who have ascended have different attributes from those who are still on earth, yet there is no real separation.”
‘Abdu’l-Bahá in London, pp. 95-96