Theists and the Truth

[Mock Turtle]

I think that any lawyer in the very first year of law school learns that the judicial truth is not the historical truth.

That may be so but do you think it is up to you, as an observer, to decide guilt or not?

 

[Estro Felino]

That may be so but do you think it is up to you, as an observer, to decide guilt or not?

No. It's up to God.
God saw everything.
God is like a surveillance camera who records anything 24/7...and anything is recorded.
So He is the Truth.
He knows who is guilty and who is not.

 

[Mock Turtle]

No. It's up to God.
God saw everything.
God is like a surveillance camera who records anything 24/7...and anything is recorded.
So He is the Truth.
He knows who is guilty and who is not.

Not much use to us alive on Earth though, given so many villains seem to get away with their crimes, and rather relying on the existence of a God and one interested in human affairs.

 

[Father Heathen]

I have read people say on social media, in 2020, something like "even if they cheated, that was for a just cause: to prevent a fascist president from ruining America".

People say dumb things. Therefore?

Well...to some people, truth is optional and unimportant. Less important than defeating a fascist with any means possible.
But to me it's anything. God is Truth.

Yet you believe and embrace all sorts of debunked conspiracy theories, so it seems truth is optional and unimportant to you as well.

 

[Estro Felino]

Not much use to us alive on Earth though, given so many villains seem to get away with their crimes, and rather relying on the existence of a God and one interested in human affairs.

Because the afterlife is more important.
The eternity is more important than our worldly life.
We live less than a century. Sometimes much less.
Nothing.

 

[Estro Felino]

People say dumb things. Therefore?

Yet you believe and embrace all sorts of debunked conspiracy theories, so it seems truth is optional and unimportant to you as well.

If it were optional to me, I wouldn't be so impatient to die, in order to know it.
Duh?

 

[Father Heathen]

No. It's up to God.
God saw everything.
God is like a surveillance camera who records anything 24/7...and anything is recorded.
So He is the Truth.
He knows who is guilty and who is not.

But he's not talking, so let's go by evidence and plausibility. Unfortunately, some people seem to think political affiliation determines innocence or guilt.

 

[Estro Felino]

But he's not talking, so let's go by evidence and plausibility.

Not now.
In the afterlife, He will.
I understand that you are an atheist, so you believe there's no hereafter, right?

 

[Mock Turtle]

Because the afterlife is more important.
The eternity is more important than our worldly life.
We live less than a century. Sometimes much less.
Nothing.

Well, since an afterlife doesn't seem to be provable as to existing, and probably why so many are non-religious, not much point in using threats from God on these is there?

 

[Estro Felino]

Well, since an afterlife doesn't seem to be provable as to existing, and probably why so many are non-religious, not much point in using threats from God on these is there?

If you told me that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is going to kill me tomorrow, I wouldn't believe you, and I would laugh nicely, because I don't believe such entity exists.

So...logic imposes that if you believe God doesn't exist, how can you consider my beliefs and warnings as threats?

 

[Mock Turtle]

If you told me that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is going to kill me tomorrow, I wouldn't believe you, and I would laugh nicely, because I don't believe such entity exists.

So...logic imposes that if you believe God doesn't exist, how can you consider my beliefs and warnings as threats?

Maybe it's your conscience that tells you otherwise?

The threats supposedly coming from God - is what I meant - and seemingly coming from various religious doctrines.

 

[Estro Felino]

The threats supposedly coming from God - is what I meant - and seemingly coming from various religious doctrines.

But if you believe He doesn't exist, how can you consider them as threats?
It's illogical.

 

[Mock Turtle]

But if you believe He doesn't exist, how can you consider them as threats?
It's illogical.

Quite - and is why I said such will not work on those who don't believe in any gods.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

This thread is about theology. Can you remain on topic, please?

This was in your OP: "I wonder whether atheists are saddened by the fact that certain truths will never be revealed. In life, I mean. What do you atheists think of the Truth? The historical Truth? Do you strive for it?"

I wrote, "What I love about what happened in court is that he will see justice before his death, and so will the plaintiff even if they can't pry a nickel from him or the award is modified."

I answered your question with regard to the issue of the Carroll trials. Yes, I strive for both truth and justice before death and would be saddened if Trump got away with his crimes unpunished while alive. The case was tried to elicit historical truth as you put it - did he or didn't he?

1) Motive
2) Footprints to his house
3) Attempted escape
4) Psychological Profiling
That suffices me to understand who did it.

Was that regarding the OJ trial? I assume so. Still, you weren't there, which you gave as a reason for not passing judgment on Carroll v Trump. It looks like you see that not being there isn't reason to not come to a tentative, evidenced conclusion. Many unwitnessed crimes are justly and successfully tried even in the court of public opinion. Trump is guilty of sexual assault and defamation but will only be punished for the latter.

Whoever lied or assaulted, will be punished by God.

I don't believe that, but you still haven't addressed the injustice of such a system. Where's the justice for the plaintiff in the afterlife? And why doesn't this god mete out justice during life? The phrase "Justice delayed is justice denied" refers to the importance of timely and efficient delivery of justice.

Also, infinite suffering for Trump for his crimes would also not be justice.

I have read people say on social media, in 2020, something like "even if they cheated, that was for a just cause: to prevent a fascist president from ruining America".

I've said similar things myself. I don't believe that the last presidential was stolen, but even if I did, I would support that. Truth is not the highest good. Love trumps truth when they suggest different taking different actions.

 

[Estro Felino]

I answered your question with regard to the issue of the Carroll trials. Yes, I strive for both truth and justice before death and would be saddened if Trump got away with his crimes unpunished while alive. The case was tried to elicit historical truth as you put it - did he or didn't he?

But this thread is about theology. About the existence of an otherworldly justice. Or lack thereof.
It's not a political thread.

Was that regarding the OJ trial? I assume so. Still, you weren't there, which you gave as a reason for not passing judgment on Carroll v Trump. It looks like you see that not being there isn't reason to not come to a tentative, evidenced conclusion. Many unwitnessed crimes are justly and successfully tried even in the court of public opinion. Trump is guilty of sexual assault and defamation but will only be punished for the latter.

Again. In the afterlife I will meet both Nicole Brown and Goldman and they will tell me who killed them.

I don't believe that, but you still haven't addressed the injustice of such a system. Where's the justice for the plaintiff in the afterlife?

It would be unjust if God didn't punish the liars, the deceivers and those who win a case by lying.

And why doesn't this god mete out justice during life? The phrase "Justice delayed is justice denied" refers to the importance of timely and efficient delivery of justice.

Because He has the power over the afterlife, not over the worldly dimension.

 

[Father Heathen]

Not now.
In the afterlife, He will.
I understand that you are an atheist, so you believe there's no hereafter, right?

I'm an agnostic with a pantheistic lean, but I see religions as self-appointed and self-serving middlemen who presume to speak and act on god's behalf.

But if you believe in the afterlife, why do you idolize men who by your own religious standards are evil? Do you think Christ actually approves of Putin or Trump?

 

[Estro Felino]

I'm an agnostic with a pantheistic lean, but I see religions as self-appointed and self-serving middlemen who presume to speak and act on god's behalf.

So you believe that there may be an afterlife?

But if you believe in the afterlife, why do you idolize men who by your own religious standards are evil? Do you think Christ actually approves of Putin or Trump?

I don't idolize any man.
I only idolize Jesus Christ. He is the Truth.
And He will tell me whether some evil people assassinated both JFK and his brother Bobby.
And He will surely make justice. Because I only care about the Truth.
I don't care about Trump or Putin.

 

[JustGeorge]

I don't idolize any man.
I only idolize Jesus Christ. He is the Truth.
And He will tell me whether some evil people assassinated both JFK and his brother Bobby.

Do you think, in the afterlife, questions about stuff like this will be important?

(I ask genuinely.)

 

[Estro Felino]

Do you think, in the afterlife, questions about stuff like this will be important?

(I ask genuinely.)

Love will be important.
And since I love JFK, yes these details will matter.

 

[Father Heathen]

So you believe that there may be an afterlife?

If there is, it isn't the cartoon nonsense as depicted by mainstream religions.

I don't idolize any man.

Your posts suggests otherwise.

I only idolize Jesus Christ. He is the Truth.
And He will tell me whether some evil people assassinated both JFK and his brother Bobby.
And He will surely make justice. Because I only care about the Truth.
I don't care about Trump or Putin.

What are some of your favorite Jesus quotes?