There can only be awareness in one form or another.

[Runewolf1973]

Consider this... When we die we lose consciousness and all sense of time, space and knowledge of existence. In effect, time would not exist to us and we would be nothing more than matter/energy changing form. We could be dead, unconscious, or completely unaware for billions of years and we wouldn't even know it. The only possibility I can think of is that at some point during that vast amount of time matter changes form and we re-appear or re-awaken into some other form or mode of awareness...perhaps not in human form. In essence, all we can ever possibly know is awareness/consciousness in some form or another. We can never truly know what it is like to be unconscious, dead, or nonexistent because we would be completely unaware of being so. If you were to die right now and even if it takes 10 billion years of matter changing form, the very next thing you would have any knowledge of is your somehow being conscious or aware in some body, some form, or some mode of being whatever that might be.

Curious what others think of this idea.

 

[Terese]

Except Gandalf knows

 

[Deathbydefault]

What you submit takes religion or spirituality of a form.
It is idealistic and unable to be demonstrated as possible.

In the most likely scenario, "you", as in your unique thoughts and consciousness, will be recycled and the world will go on.
It takes an assertion to come to an alternate or contradictory conclusion.

 

[Jedster]

Here are some of my own observations of 68 years being 'me'.
There is a part of me that has never changed; this part sees a wondrous universe/existence and is always in the 'wow' state.
I can remember as far back as 4 years in age experiencing this consciousness in certain unexpected moments. This experience seems to pop in and out of my (present) life.
As far as death is concerned, I find it hard to believe that our lifetime is all there is, although there is no proof to prove otherwise.
So, if 'what we are' does continue, I think is that part I mention above.
I suppose I'll find out when I do 'die'.

(just some thoughts)

 

[allfoak]

In the most likely scenario, "you", as in your unique thoughts and consciousness, will be recycled and the world will go on.it takes an assertion to come to an alternate or contradictory conclusion.

This conclusion is also an assertion.
The assertion being that the material reality is all that exists and there is nothing more substantial behind it.
Even science has not made that assertion.
Scientists are continuing to look for this more substantive reality everyday.

Religion already proposes that not only does this reality exist, but we can be aware of it and even use it for our own benefit.
Those of us that have tested these religious assertions have found them to be true.
Science has yet to prove anything regarding the origination of consciousness.

 

[allfoak]

Consider this... When we die we lose consciousness and all sense of time, space and knowledge of existence. In effect, time would not exist to us and we would be nothing more than matter/energy changing form. We could be dead, unconscious, or completely unaware for billions of years and we wouldn't even know it. The only possibility I can think of is that at some point during that vast amount of time matter changes form and we re-appear or re-awaken into some other form or mode of awareness...perhaps not in human form. In essence, all we can ever possibly know is awareness/consciousness in some form or another. We can never truly know what it is like to be unconscious, dead, or nonexistent because we would be completely unaware of being so. If you were to die right now and even if it takes 10 billion years of matter changing form, the very next thing you would have any knowledge of is your somehow being conscious or aware in some body, some form, or some mode of being whatever that might be.

Curious what others think of this idea.

Time seems to be a necessary aspect of mind, needed for the purpose of accomplishing what we are here to do.
Once out of the body time would cease to be important.

 

[atanu]

Consider this... When we die we lose consciousness and all sense of time, space ......

How do you assume this?

What you mean by 'we'? If you assume that 'we' means the bodies (that lie lifeless after life departs), then I grant that you may claim to have a third party experience of bodies becoming 'unconscious' after an event that we call death.

But this assumption is an error. How can the body which has no intelligence of its own and which changes every moment be 'me'?

 

[George-ananda]

Curious what others think of this idea.

Some interesting thoughts, but I think the reality is that when we die we exist in our astral/mental bodies barely knowing we physically died. There is a continuation of consciousness (no time loss). My thought comes from he evidence from NDEs and other phenomena and the teachings of eastern spiritual masters.

 

[George-ananda]

although there is no empirical evidence to prove otherwise.

I liked your post. I would add as a serious student of paranormal phenomena that there is a ton of empirical evidence supporting the afterlife hypothesis (perhaps no 'proof' is what you really meant). Many claim that the weight of all the afterlife evidence is so heavy that they call it essentially proof.

 

[Jedster]

I liked your post. I would add as a serious student of paranormal phenomena that there is a ton of empirical evidence supporting the afterlife hypothesis (perhaps no 'proof' is what you really meant). Many claim that the weight of all the afterlife evidence is so heavy that they call it essentially proof.

Thanks George-anand , I did mean proof and have corrected it.
May you always be full of anand.

 

[Deathbydefault]

This conclusion is also an assertion.
The assertion being that the material reality is all that exists and there is nothing more substantial behind it.
Even science has not made that assertion.
Scientists are continuing to look for this more substantive reality everyday.

It's an observation, not an assertion.
If you were to die in a controlled area I would be able to slowly observe you rotting and returning to nature.
Your thoughts and memories and the thing we call consciousness are held within your brain, that rots too.
Until another reality can be proven to exist it is nonsensical to assume or assert that another one does exist.

Religion already proposes that not only does this reality exist, but we can be aware of it and even use it for our own benefit.
Those of us that have tested these religious assertions have found them to be true.
Science has yet to prove anything regarding the origination of consciousness.

Please demonstrate the process by which you go through to confirm this extra reality.

At one point in time science had yet to prove the Earth was round.
I'm not saying science will be able to provide an answer for consciousness, I'm saying it's very likely.

 

[allfoak]

Your thoughts and memories and the thing we call consciousness are held within your brain,

No proof for this.
In fact, i would go so far as to say it will never be proven that consciousness is restricted to the human brain.
All evidence thus far points in the opposite direction.
Anyone who has experienced an OBE or an NDE will attest to the fact that their consciousness was separate from their body.
While this may not be proof enough for some, science has yet to convince those who have had these experiences, that science is correct and we are not.

 

[allfoak]

Please demonstrate the process by which you go through to confirm this extra reality.

There are countless ways to raise one's vibration to the point of being able to experience small glimpses of the reality that exists right in front of our faces.
The goal is to be completely conscious of this reality to the point that we are in this world but not actually of it, to become transformed.
The problem is us.
There are more things that can get in the way of being able to do this than there are ways to accomplish it.

I have found the HermeticTradition useful at this point in my journey but understand that i began as a child spiritually like everyone else.
This may offend some but it is what it is.
I started my journey as a fundamentalist Christian, "a babe in Christ" as they say, more than 35yrs ago.
I have a good deal of experience to draw from.
I abandoned much in the way or religious thought and practice along the way, synthesizing the message to it's simplest form.

This may not make any sense to everyone but those that have had any experience of a reality beyond this one will understand what it is that i say, the rest will either trust enough to test it for themselves or just reject it as foolishness.
What i say has been attested to by countless religions and philosophies, enough information for anyone to find their way through the labyrinth of life.
I often post links to my journal that contains material that has been helpful to me along the way.

When we come to know what this means we will become our own savior.
This is the goal.

The Gospel of Thomas
Saying 22:

“Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to his disciples, ‘These infants being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom.’ They said to him, ‘Shall we then, as children, enter the kingdom?’ Jesus said to them, ‘When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom.’”

 

[Deathbydefault]

No proof for this.
In fact, i would go so far as to say it will never be proven that consciousness is restricted to the human brain.
All evidence thus far points in the opposite direction.
Anyone who has experienced an OBE or an NDE will attest to the fact that their consciousness was separate from their body.
While this may not be proof enough for some, science has yet to convince those who have had these experiences, that science is correct and we are not.

Well it's not on me to show that consciousness is not restricted to the human brain anyways.

I've had NDEs and have been resuscitated a few times.
I've yet to experience anything that would ever even lead me to believing that my consciousness was out of body.
And I love that this gets brought up too, it's an inconsistent argument when applied repeatedly.

By the way, does this consciousness argument you're making apply only to humans?

 

[allfoak]

Well it's not on me to show that consciousness is not restricted to the human brain anyways.

Do you expect someone to do it for you?
I am a little weary of this excuse.

By the way, does this consciousness argument you're making apply only to humans?

Are you something other than human that it would matter?

've had NDEs and have been resuscitated a few times.
I've yet to experience anything that would ever even lead me to believing that my consciousness was out of body.

I am not here to question or to interpret your experiences.
I am attesting to my own experiences, the experiences of countless others and the abundance of material available to test it all for ourselves.

 

[Deathbydefault]

There are countless ways to raise one's vibration to the point of being able to experience small glimpses of the reality that exists right in front of our faces.
The goal is to be completely conscious of this reality to the point that we are in this world but not actually of it, to become transformed.
The problem is us.
There are more things that can get in the way of being able to do this than there are ways to accomplish it.

Please demonstrate or link a demonstration of this process.
Emotions, feelings and wants are not what I appeal to.
If I ever had an experience like this I would try to prove it to myself first, if that is not possible then it would be dismissed.
I suggest trying that yourself.

 

[George-ananda]

I've had NDEs and have been resuscitated a few times.

That is not an NDE. Many people near death do not experience NDE.

By the way, does this consciousness argument you're making apply only to humans?

Just by the way, I say 'no' it is not restricted to humans. It is just more sophisticated in a human than a mouse because of a more sophisticated brain.

 

[Deathbydefault]

Do you expect someone to do it for you?
I am a little weary of this excuse.

I expect the ones that assert this is possible to do it, I'll just dismiss it if they can't.

Are you something other than human that it would matter?

Some might say I am, but I'm not.
The point is that other animals have consciousness too, so it would follow that they might also be able to experience this as well.
If that were not the case, I would assume you saw humans as some special thing, to which I would have replied with dim mockery.

I am not there to question or or interpret your experiences.
I am attesting to my own experiences, the experiences of countless others and the abundance of material available to test it for ourselves.

And what I'm saying is not everyone gets that experience, there's another variable to account for and deeply consider.

 

[allfoak]

Please demonstrate or link a demonstration of this process.
Emotions, feelings and wants are not what I appeal to.
If I ever had an experience like this I would try to prove it to myself first, if that is not possible then it would be dismissed.
I suggest trying that yourself.

You are trying to find proof of something that is not material in nature through material means.
Do you understand how that could never be possible?

The reality that is the source of the material world is not something that can be tested through the use of physical instruments, at least not what is available to us at this time.
The testing has to be done by each individual through the use of their own mind and body.

This means the proving is on each individual to do for themselves

 

[Deathbydefault]

That is not an NDE. Many people near death do not experience NDE.

Give your definition for a near death experience.

Just by the way, I say 'no' it is not restricted to humans. It is just more sophisticated in a human than a mouse because of a more sophisticated brain.

That's a fair argument.