There can only be awareness in one form or another.

[Deathbydefault]

You are trying to find proof of something that is not material in nature through material means.
Do you understand how that could never be possible?

The reality that is the source of the material world is not something that can be tested through the use of physical instruments, at least not what is available to us at this time.
The testing has to be done by each individual through the use of their own mind and body.

The proof I ask for isn't what I want to call proof, I want your personal experience.
To be more specific, please tell me in short the events that lead you to the conclusion that there is another reality that consciousness might ascend or escape (or whatever) to.

 

[allfoak]

And what I'm saying is not everyone gets that experience, there's another variable to account for and deeply consider.

The variables have been accounted for through the experiences of those that have come before us.

 

[Deathbydefault]

The variables have been accounted for through the experiences of those that have come before us.

That's nice, what about by you?

 

[allfoak]

The proof I ask for isn't what I want to call proof, I want your personal experience.
To be more specific, please tell me in short the events that lead you to the conclusion that there is another reality that consciousness might ascend or escape (or whatever) to.

I do not see how my personal experience in this case will not benefit this conversation.
You asked me for links to demonstrate this process and i told you that you could find the information everywhere.
I also told you that you could use my journal as a place to find information of which i leave links to in my signature.

Your interested in some sort of physical proof and we all know it, this being the case your sudden interest in my personal experience lends me to believe that it is not a sincere request.
A good deal of my personal experience is in fact posted on this message board, if you are really interested in the things i say and do.
I doubt that very much however since you don't seem to be commenting on any links that i have made available.

 

[George-ananda]

Give your definition for a near death experience.

From Wikipedia: A near-death experience (NDE) is a personal experience associated with impending death, encompassing multiple possible sensations including detachment from the body, feelings of levitation, total serenity, security, warmth, the experience of absolute dissolution, and the presence of a light.[

As is well-known, not all people near death have these personal experiences.

 

[Deathbydefault]

I do not see how my personal experience in this case will not benefit this conversation.
You asked me for links to demonstrate this process and i told you that you could find the information everywhere.
I also told you that you could use my journal as a place to find information of which i leave links to in my signature.

Your interested in some sort of physical proof and we all know it, this being the case your sudden interest in my personal experience lends me to believe that it is not a sincere request.
A good deal of my personal experience is in fact posted on this message board, if you are really interested in the things i say and do.
I doubt that very much however since you don't seem to be commenting on any links that i have made available.

Well there are two parts to it on my side.
On one hand, I will never accept any of this at all in any way until there is verifiable and consistent evidence.
On the other hand, I like philosophy a lot and am genuinely interested in the subject to the degree that I ask for your personal experience.

If you don't want to give it then whatever, I'll research it online later.

 

[George-ananda]

I expect the ones that assert this is possible to do it, I'll just dismiss it if they can't.

You can just dismiss anything you want, but you may be impoverishing your knowledge of reality as a result. It is foolish to just blindly dismiss something because someone can't prove it to you. Many subjects require a detailed dissection and consideration with all other related subjects in view before forming an informed opinion.

 

[allfoak]

As is well-known, not all people near death have these personal experiences.

It is actually possible for some to not have this experience due to who they are.
If what we think and believe makes up the person that we are, then what would someone take with them that did not accept that there was anything beyond this reality?
I would imagine them to be in what could be called a comatose state, a state of darkness due to there being no thought forms (light) available to draw upon or worse, suffering from the thoughts they did take with them until they finally work them out and return.

 

[George-ananda]

It is actually possible for some to not have this experience due to who they are.
If what we think and believe makes up the person that we are, then what would someone take with them that did not accept that there was anything beyond this reality?

One thing known for sure about the NDE is that it occurs to many, many people that did not believe in an afterlife. Your theory above has been considered by researchers but doesn't seem supported by the evidence.

 

[allfoak]

If you don't want to give it then whatever, I'll research it online later.

My personal experience is much more than i could ever put into a few posts.
This being the case posting my experience opens me up to misunderstanding and all sorts of other negativity.
I am very careful to control this information.

i am sure you understand the need for the protection of one's personal space?
I'm good with sharing but only what and when i think is appropriate.

If you are a student of philosophy then you understand the concept of the material world being an illusion, it is not new.
Any student of philosophy worth a damn is the one who lives the philosophy they espouse.

 

[Deathbydefault]

From Wikipedia: A near-death experience (NDE) is a personal experience associated with impending death, encompassing multiple possible sensations including detachment from the body, feelings of levitation, total serenity, security, warmth, the experience of absolute dissolution, and the presence of a light.[

As is well-known, not all people near death have these personal experiences.

I have felt serenity and a couple other emotions that i am unable to identify, likely due to my disorders.
There is a decade of my life that was a question mark to me, I'm sure I could list of enough experinces to eventually find what you would call an NDE.

 

[Deathbydefault]

You can just dismiss anything you want, but you may be impoverishing your knowledge of reality as a result. It is foolish to just blindly dismiss something because someone can't prove it to you. Many subjects require a detailed dissection and consideration with all other related subjects in view before forming an informed opinion.

It wont hurt my knowledge because there is nothing to know, it's a belief that is being robbed here.

 

[Deathbydefault]

My personal experience is much more than i could ever put into a few posts.
This being the case posting my experience opens me up to misunderstanding and all sorts of other negativity.
I am very careful to control this information.

i am sure you understand the need for the protection of one's personal space?
I'm good with sharing but only what and when i think is appropriate.

Understood.

If you are a student of philosophy then you understand the concept of the material world being an illusion, it is not new.
Any student of philosophy worth a damn is the one who lives the philosophy they espouse.

Perhaps not a student but a lover of sorts.
I like being able to see all possibilities and being forced to deeply think about things, philosophy is perfect for such.
However, understanding philosophy and alternating belief structures does not mean I follow them.
There are bible experts that are Muslim, my situation to philosophy is similar.

 

[George-ananda]

It wont hurt my knowledge because there is nothing to know, it's a belief that is being robbed here.

I don't understand your point here. What belief is being robbed??

 

[allfoak]

One thing known for sure about the NDE is that it occurs to many, many people that did not believe in an afterlife. Your theory above has been considered by researchers but doesn't seem supported by the evidence.

While i understand your perspective, perhaps it is the experience of which you speak that prevents them from having the one of which i speak.
Many Atheists die and never return.

I am thinking that if all is mind, then it is undeniable that what we think matters and if our consciousness continues after our physical death, then we can only bring with us what we have created, since this is the place of the creation of consciousness through the interaction of opposites which creates the third force of mind, that balances out the opposites.

 

[Deathbydefault]

I don't understand your point here. What belief is being robbed??

The mentioned belief that has been discussed these last 20 some posts.

Edit: perhaps robbed isn't the best word, but it fits the situation. Use 'denied' if it makes more sense.

 

[allfoak]

There are bible experts that are Muslim, my situation to philosophy is similar.

This just tells me that you are able to use some discernment while processing information.
Do you think i would listen to scholars who claim to be knowledgeable but don't seem to know a thing about life?
I hope you would not compare me to someone like that.

 

[George-ananda]

While i understand your perspective, perhaps it is the experience of which you speak that prevents them from having the one of which i speak.
Many Atheists die and never return.

The wisdom tradition that I have come to believe (Vedic/Hindu/Advaita) would say we all continue (atheist or any religion).

I am thinking that if all is mind, then it is undeniable that what we think matters and if our consciousness continues after our physical death, then we can only bring with us what we have created, since this is the place of the creation of consciousness through the interaction of opposites which creates the third force of mind, that balances out the opposites.

Although I do agree it is all a creation of consciousness ultimately, there are still relative realities that we live in before realizing that truth; physical, etheric. astral, mental, causal (individual soul) and the Supersoul (Brahman/God/Consciousness). Any human with consciousness possesses all the relative levels (belief at an intellectual level of an afterlife has nothing to do with it). It is actually the quality of our hearts and minds that determine the quality of the afterlife.

 

[George-ananda]

The mentioned belief that has been discussed these last 20 some posts.

Edit: perhaps robbed isn't the best word, but it fits the situation. Use 'denied' if it makes more sense.

I'll replace the word 'robbed': It wont hurt my knowledge because there is nothing to know, it's a belief that is being denied here.

So my point is, how did you determine 'there is nothing to know'?

 

[Deathbydefault]

I'll replace the word 'robbed': It wont hurt my knowledge because there is nothing to know, it's a belief that is being denied here.

So my point is, how did you determine 'there is nothing to know'?

I determine that by whether or not it is something that can be demonstrated.
If I cannot demonstrate it I will not claim it as knowledge, it becomes a belief or something similar.

If someone says they know something, but cannot demonstrate this, or are not willing to, it then becomes my belief that they do not know.
I say belief because I cannot demonstrate that they do not know, only that they have yet to prove that they do know.

When I say 'there is nothing to know' I mean it as 'there is no reason to think it is something I can know'.