There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[ElishaElijah]

You responded to that post, by claiming that I was using my own definition of words, which was rubbish, and I responded here:

Well yeah, empirical evidence doesn’t mean that you personally have to observe what happened does it? The before and after change that God did in my life through Jesus Christ was observed by many people, you weren’t there so you can only have an opinion. This change in people is recorded in Scripture and has been happening for thousands of years now.
Have you personally observed all the science you make assumptions on?

 

[Five Solas]

It only makes perfect sense for those that believe in magic words and neo-Platonism.

Exactly how does a word create anything? that characterizes magical thinking and belief systems.

And yes, I reject that.

I believe that physical things have properties and the natural laws describe the behaviors that come from those properties. Matter interacts and is dynamcally active, leading to increasing complexity in some situations. Among those situations are the chemical mixtures that were seen on thee early Earth and the result was the complexities of life.

I think what frustrates people holding views like yours is that you cannot 'pinpoint' God.
He did not create Himself into his creation. Science can therefore not prove or dissect God.
No Christian is under any obligation to prove God to anyone. I am not aware of anyone who successfully achieved that anyway.
The Bible is packed with supernatural events. God reveals himself as a supernatural being doing supernatural things in supernatural ways.
That is what Christianity believes. We accept that non-Christians find that hard to stomach.

 

[KWED]

I appreciate what you're saying; but, in the context of the conversation the claim was made "There is no evidence of the exodus." Any evidence regardless of whether it comes from secular or religious archaeologists should be enough to refute this claim. There is evidence but it comes from biased sources is more accurate?

People used to move around a lot in the ANE. They were also enslaved. There is nothing remarkable about myths and legends based on real world events.
However, a myth having a real-world origin does not make the myth true.

 

[Wildswanderer]

why would an as yet unknown natural process not be a more likely speculation?

You obviously don't see God as a natural explanation, but the vast majority of humans disagree.

 

[KWED]

I do not make claims, I make statements.

From the Oxford English Dictionary...
Claim: State that something is the case.

Weird that someone else here recently made exactly the same argument.

 

[InChrist]

Invisible deities have genders?

The biblical God is revealed as Spirit, not a gender. The reference to Himself, He or Father are to demonstrate qualities of care, provision, protection, etc., not gender.

 

[Polymath257]

I think what frustrates people holding views like yours is that you cannot 'pinpoint' God.
He did not create Himself into his creation. Science can therefore not prove or dissect God.

So why believe in such a being?

No Christian is under any obligation to prove God to anyone. I am not aware of anyone who successfully achieved that anyway.
The Bible is packed with supernatural events. God reveals himself as a supernatural being doing supernatural things in supernatural ways.

Which, in my way of thinking, makes it *less* likely to be true. So, again, why believe in such?

That is what Christianity believes. We accept that non-Christians find that hard to stomach.

It's confusing. I see no reason, other than psychological ones, to believe such things.

 

[samtonga43]

If God is not a theistic God, then God can be an atheistic God. Not all Gods are theistics.

"God is a being than which no greater can be conceived,"
St, Anselm

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

"God is a being than which no greater can be conceived,"
St, Anselm

Yeah, if words really was magic, imagine that.

 

[rational experiences]

If humans as a human say I'm human. You mean I'm a human.

If a human says I'm a God you have to ask why.

If that human a theist says as I said O earth is God position number one in human science only. It makes sense.

If they say God O earth created the heavens spirit from ejected body release. It makes sense as expressed human science. Theism only. Natural position I speak words first.

All for machines. Then machine reactions. Planet mass.

Straight away natural life thinking conscious awareness is survival. Then interacts constantly with machine. Thinking.

Human now involved in a machines relationship. Unnatural.

So then you'd ask so what happened after?

Human proof. Acts very strangely by thoughts. Human biology became very sick.

Human tried replacing human life by a machine known exact already.

Straight away you are instantly told why.

The argument.

I pretended I knew how earths mass in light sun mass attack began presence first biology.

How is that any machine theism actually theist?

It's not. A different theist belief.

As the theist I want a machine takes its bases direct out of earths mass as a human. So no human is associated to a machine.

Then a human looking seeing crop circle as a human. Doesn't make the claim life as father human mother human. Their life ownership.

Says a thesis as man once was a baby human.

Says I believe the alien theme is God. The ground who created liFe by ground image.

I know it's not.

Reason a crop is flattened. It's still healthy.

Only pressure changes causes flattening. Wilt a loss of water.

And small already cooled manifested metal balls get seen. Seen as it gets cooled. Exact physical manifestation.

All about machine positions.

So if you do a mass earth reaction you virtually kill a machine body constantly.

Said human beings awareness.

As we already legally book shut so you didn't read it. Book shut says a shut bible was the legal position.

If you read the end pages it says don't give God any named theism. As you're already proven wrong.

Legal human position.

Who hence broke a legal written law? Science did.

Why was Galileo put in gaol? He was a criminal. Legally stated.

We already knew all advices. We said a machine had taken the physical biological position of human to human equality.

 

[Five Solas]

From the Oxford English Dictionary...
Claim: State that something is the case.

Weird that someone else here recently made exactly the same argument.

It's not an argument, it's a statement. I am not asking for anyone's approval - only that of God.

 

[Five Solas]

As an unevidenced presupposition, only.

My presupposition is that God exists and the He created the universe as documented in Scripture.
I state that I believe that.
Presuppositions do not require proof and neither do statements but you could aim to falsify it. I could find no evidence to the contrary.

 

[Five Solas]

Which, in my way of thinking, makes it *less* likely to be true. So, again, why believe in such?

I think you disagree. You're allowed.

 

[Five Solas]

Well I'm glad Lewis at least knew dying/rising savior demigods were popular before Jesus.

First several of the dying/rising demigods were set on Earth. Second Paul did not know, ghost Jesus never told him, and never said it was on Earth.
It became set on Earth in Mark. Resurrecting saviors undergoing a passion in the celestial realm and then later stories were written and set on Earth was not uncommon.
Mark is definitely fiction and the source of the tale. Mark uses verbatim passages from the OT, he uses Pauls letters to craft stories and its's highly mythic literature. Improbable events, unsourced, anonymous, no explanations of unusual events (unlike histories), ring structure, triadic inversions, chiasmus (all improbable and never used in non-fiction). Jesus in Mark scores as high as King Arthur on the rank Ragalin mythotype scale.
Besides the earlier saviors were very similar. Heaven, souls, redemption, saviors, souls going to heaven, all Hellenistic concepts.
YOu are saying Yahweh didn't tell his people for 12 centuries about these things but then when they saw the Greek and Persian version they adopted it and it happened to all be correct? That is so unlikely? OR, it's religious syncretism. That is 100% more likely.

Lewis was simply delusional and also didn't have all the historical facts. I mean just the idea of "oh yeah it's a common myth but our version, that one time it's real?"
But the updates to Islam, no that's fake. The updates in Mormonism, that's fake.......just the one Lewis believes. No chance.

You say nothing I have not heard before. Your point is what? You do not believe the biblical accounts?
You're not the first and not the only one either.
I state again. I believe in God. I believe the holy Scriptures are reliable. I could not find any compelling evidence to the contract - only that God is trustworthy.

 

[ElishaElijah]

You say nothing I have not heard before. Your point is what? You do not believe the biblical accounts?
You're not the first and not the only one either.
I state again. I believe in God. I believe the holy Scriptures are reliable. I could not find any compelling evidence to the contract - only that God is trustworthy.

I found this to be true:
“As for God, His way is perfect; The word of the Lord is proven; He is a shield to all who trust in Him.”
‭‭II Samuel‬ ‭22:31‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[samtonga43]

Yeah, if words really was magic, imagine that.

It's just logic, Mikkel.
It is self-contradictory to deny that there exists a greatest possible being.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It's just logic, Mikkel.
It is self-contradictory to deny that there exists a greatest possible being.

It is in your brain. That you think such a being exists, doesn't mean such a being exists, just because you think it. If that was the case, your thinking it would cause such a being to exist.

 

[rational experiences]

My presupposition is that God exists and the He created the universe as documented in Scripture.
I state that I believe that.
Presuppositions do not require proof and neither do statements but you could aim to falsify it. I could find no evidence to the contrary.

A he is a him is a his who owns in biology status a penis.

As a theist human you don't use sexuality in a thesis. Hence proof you coerce is in the used term sexuality.

Reason. In biology you do own a penis hence you theory against your self existence.

The bible a man's testimonial I'm the destroyer as a scientists proof of evidence. By humans as humans for humans.

 

[samtonga43]

The cosmology of the OT is very clear.
Biblical cosmology - WikipediaView attachment 63167
Paul mentions the 3rd heaven which demonstrates the 7 heaven model was still in use at this time. The celestial temple was in outer space. Heaven was in outer space. The sky was blue because one could see the ocean above heaven.
These things did not change until astronomy became popular and religious folks realized the cosmology that was given by Yahweh by revelation was incorrect and later theologians moved things to different dimensions and began using Greek Platonic ideas, a God beyond space and time, tri-omni and Persian ideas of an eternal, uncreated God who created all that was good. The Persian ideas were used since the occupation in 5-300BC.
God
t Zoroaster went much further, and in a startling departure from accepted beliefs proclaimed Ahura Mazda to be the one uncreated God, existing eternally, and Creator of all else that is good, including all other beneficent divinities.
Dead people rising is standard gospel happenings, Saints rose up in one of the crucifixion narratives. Why is this in question?

You misunderstand. Here are your words, to which I responded:
"Yet in the religion they believe heaven is literally in outer space and miracles are frequent. As are dead people raising from the grave".

I am questioning your use of 'they', because...
I (and I would venture to guess most Christians) do not believe that heaven is literally in outer space.
I (and I would venture to guess most Christians) do not believe that miracles are frequent.
I (and I would venture to guess most Christians) do not believe that dead people frequently rise from the grave.

 

[samtonga43]

I think what frustrates people holding views like yours is that you cannot 'pinpoint' God.
He did not create Himself into his creation. Science can therefore not prove or dissect God.
No Christian is under any obligation to prove God to anyone. I am not aware of anyone who successfully achieved that anyway.
The Bible is packed with supernatural events. God reveals himself as a supernatural being doing supernatural things in supernatural ways.
That is what Christianity believes. We accept that non-Christians find that hard to stomach.

You're right; I certainly found it hard to stomach when I was atheistic. But, just at the right time, God drew me to Him, although I protested every inch of the way.