There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[Kenny]

It was. I was so confused and got into "ungodly" things...I look back and am sorry I hurt my parents although they didn't help me religiously or teach me right from wrong. I do look forward, if it is God's will, to see them in the resurrection. I hope they will learn and be happy.

We do know that His mercy rejoices over judgment and that as far as the east is from the west, that is how far He has placed our transgressions

 

[joelr]

Take care enjoy whatever there is to enjoy.

Do let me know when you can defend your position.

 

[joelr]

You ask me for something specific God has revealed to me.

Before allowing me to respond you then demand that I ask God to reveal to me something trivial (a 14-digit number you have written down).

Before allowing me to respond to the first request and the subsequent demand you go on to rule out pretty much anything I would have shared in response to the first request, pigeonholing the matter onto whether or not God will reveal to me the 14-digit number you wrote down. IE, that's the evidence you want.

They were in the same post so all this "before allowing me..." junk, maybe slow that roll.
If your response is "well I would have given you a personal anecdote but since you asked for a number now I won't", that sounds a bit odd but anyways, provide evidence please. Or not.

Before allowing me to respond to any of that you conclude that anything I would have shared in response to the first request was actually just my own thinking and best judgment at work, except in those cases when it didn't go the way I wanted, and that nothing of it was of divine origin, but had merely been ascribed to God by me.

Before allowing me to respond to any of that you conclude that what I have offered in response to your request and demand and reasoning (I have offered nothing) is "not impressive" and "not evidence."

I agree. "Nothing" is not impressive. "Nothing" is not evidence.

Yes, personal stories are not evidence. Healed from a disease? What is the mortality rate? 80%, so 20 out of 100 live. All 20 probably find it to be a miracle but have no way to demonstrate it. And it fits with probabilities perfectly.

I will ask, whatever you think is God, how did you rule out things didn't just work out that way? And by what method do you show the difference between life happening and a deity helping out?

Also, why is a deity helping out with anything while every day 10,000 children die of starvation?????

Well then prove me wrong, show me how that "anything I would have shared in response to the first request was actually just my own thinking and best judgment at work," is really a deity. The numbers can wait, I would like to know.

 

[Kenny]

Meaningless apologetics that don't answer the question but avoid it with fake apologetics.

Meaningless for you - the power of God for me.

However, faith is the same in all religions. They all mention mind and HEART which is more a spiritual faith. It's tried with every religion.
You know Islam and Hinduism are false by your beliefs, so spiritual faith is also not a path to truth.

I'm sure you have a point to this.

Also I can claim faith is a spiritual law that is necessary to operate my racial superiority. My spiritual faith in R.S. allows me to feel it in my heart/spirit and know it's true. If I feel it that way I know God is speaking his acceptance. Because I have a personal relationship and only truth comes from God.

Yes... you can use faith for good and evil such as "there is no God" - a faith statement.

apologetics can be used for anything. Not a method for truth. Faith is a con to get people to stop listening to a rational , empirical methodology.


Hinduism:
Śraddhā is often glossed in English as faith. The term figures importantly in the literature, teachings, and discourse of Hinduism, Jainism, and Buddhism. Sri Aurobindo describes śraddhā as "the soul's belief in the Divine's existence, wisdom, power, love, and grace" Without diacritical marks, it is usually written as Sraddha.

Faith plays a crucial role within Hinduism, underpinning all assumptions, beliefs, and inferences. Within Hinduism, having faith means one maintains trust in god, scriptures, dharma, and the path of liberation (moksha).[2] The Brihadranyaka Upanishad (3.9.21) states that "the resting ground of faith is the heart", emphasising that to have faith is to follow ones heart and intuition.

Within Hinduism, a key understanding of faith is maintaining trust in the scriptures. Hindus believe that it is not possible to understand or experience god directly with human senses, and so god's presence is inferred through descriptions in the scriptures.[3]

Just as the physical laws, such as the law of electricity or heat or light need certain conditions, ingredients and instruments for their successful testing in a laboratory, the spiritual laws require certain environment, mental states, preparation and discipline on our part to realize them successfully. Some of the constraints in working with the spiritual laws are discussed below.
The spiritual laws, on the other hand, belong to an ultra invisible world. They are mostly beyond the grasp of our senses and intellect and science, in its present form and with its present methods cannot validate them with the same certainty.

It may reach out to the atoms and the molecules, but cannot reach out to the subtle elements hidden with in our world or in our physical and mental bodies or deal with the intangible truths which our senses cannot validate.
It may unravel the functioning of the brain or the human heart, but cannot reach into the depths of the human heart to know how subtle emotions and aspirations arise and impel us to act in certain ways that defy all human logic. It may prove the existence of physical laws with great precision and in detail, but cannot fathom the spiritual laws that govern our lives in secretive and subtle ways.

The spiritual laws do not belong to the realm of the physical but the mental and the spiritual. They are not easily comprehensible with ordinary mental effort and even more difficult to establish conclusively because unlike the physical laws, they do not confirm to a particular pattern, mechanism or process.

Islam
Iman (Arabic: إِيمَان, romanized: ʾīmān, lit. 'faith' or 'belief', also 'recognition') in Islamic theology denotes a believer's recognition of faith and deeds in the religious aspects of Islam.[1][2] Its most simple definition is the belief in the six articles of faith, known as arkān al-īmān.

The term iman has been delineated in both the Quran and hadith.[3] According to the Quran, iman must be accompanied by righteous deeds and the two together are necessary for entry into Paradise.[4] In the hadith, iman in addition to Islam and ihsan form the three dimensions of the Islamic religion.

There exists a debate both within and outside Islam on the link between faith and reason in religion, and the relative importance of either. Some scholars contend that faith and reason spring from the same source and must be harmonious.
v
In a hadith, the Islamic prophet Muhammad defined iman as "an acknowledgement in the heart, a voicing with the tongue, and an activity with the limbs."[citation needed] Faith is confidence in a real truth. When people have confidence, they submit themselves to that truth. It is not sufficient just to know the truth, but the recognition of the heart should be expressed by the tongue which is the manifestation of intelligence and at last to reflect this confidence in their activities.[6]

Faith (iman) includes six primary beliefs:[11]

1. Belief in the existence and oneness of God.
2. Belief in the existence of angels.
3. Belief in the existence of the books of which God is the author: the Quran (revealed to Muhammad), the Injeel (revealed to Jesus), the Torah (revealed to prophets and messengers amongst the Children of Israel), Psalms (revealed to David), the Scrolls of Moses, and the Scrolls of Abraham.
4. Belief in the existence of prophets: Muhammad being the last of them, Jesus the penultimate, and others sent before them [like Moses, Abraham, David, Joseph, Jacob].
5. Belief in the existence of the Day of Judgment: in that day, humanity will be divided into two groups: that of paradise and that of hell. These groups are composed of subgroups.
6. Belief in the existence of God's predestination (qadar, 'Divine Decree') due to God's omniscience, whether it involves good or bad.

The Seventy-Seven Branches of Faith​

"The Seventy-Seven Branches of Faith" is a collection compiled by the Shafi'i imam al-Bayhaqi in his work Shu'ab al-Iman. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true iman (faith and recognition) through related Quranic verses and prophetic sayings.

So?

 

[joelr]

Baha'u'llah knew that Satan was not real.

When He said "the Evil One is lying in wait, ready to entrap you. Gird yourselves against his wicked devices, and, led by the light of the name of the All-Seeing God, make your escape from the darkness that surroundeth you. Let your vision be world-embracing, rather than confined to your own self. The Evil One is he that hindereth the rise and obstructeth the spiritual progress of the children of men.”

He was not referring to an actual entity called Satan.

Ok. It was fairly well known at the time the OT was a myth.

 

[joelr]

I believe strongly that if a person recognizes there is a God, God will rectify all injustices and ill ltreatment in the future.

Many of the 25,000 people who die every day from starvation are Christian. God isn't rectifying anything.

There are such terrible things going on and He permits these to take place, but there will be a final end to these in the future. Replaced by a happy life for all. Revelation 21:1-5. Yes, I believe that.

Ok, believe what you like.
In academia the end of world myths come from Persia, introduced to the Jewish thinkers during the 2nd Temple Period.
Dr Mary Boyce studied the Persia religion and wrote many works on it. The NT version is a reworking of the myth. Also a myth.


Revelations



but Zoroaster taught that the blessed must wait for this culmination till Frashegird and the 'future body' (Pahlavi 'tan i pasen'), when the earth will give up the bones of the dead (Y 30.7). This general resurrection will be followed by the Last Judgment, which will divide all the righteous from the wicked, both those who have lived until that time and those who have been judged already. Then Airyaman, Yazata of friendship and healing, together with Atar, Fire, will melt all the metal in the mountains, and this will flow in a glowing river over the earth. All mankind must pass through this river, and, as it is said in a Pahlavi text, 'for him who is righteous it will seem like warm milk, and for him who is wicked, it will seem as if he is walking in the • flesh through molten metal' (GBd XXXIV. r 8-r 9). In this great apocalyptic vision Zoroaster perhaps fused, unconsciously, tales of volcanic eruptions and streams of burning lava with his own experience of Iranian ordeals by molten metal; and according to his stern original teaching, strict justice will prevail then, as at each individual j udgment on earth by a fiery ordeal. So at this last ordeal of all the wicked will suffer a second death, and will perish off the face of the earth. The Daevas and legions of darkness will already have been annihilated in a last great battle with the Yazatas; and the river of metal will flow down into hell, slaying Angra Mainyu and burning up the last vestige of wickedness in the universe.

Ahura Mazda and the six Amesha Spentas will then solemnize a lt, spiritual yasna, offering up the last sacrifice (after which death wW be no more), and making a preparation of the mystical 'white haoma', which will confer immortality on the resurrected bodies of all the blessed, who will partake of it. Thereafter men will beome like the Immortals themselves, of one thought, word and deed, unaging, free from sickness, without corruption, forever joyful in the kingdom of God upon earth. For it is in this familiar and beloved world, restored to its original perfection, that, according to Zoroaster, eternity will be passed in bliss, and not in a remote insubstantial Paradise. So the time of Separation is a renewal of the time of Creation, except that no return is prophesied to the original uniqueness of living things. Mountain and valley will give place once more to level plain; but whereas in the beginning there was one plant, one animal, one man, the rich variety and number that have since issued from these will remain forever. Similarly the many divinities who were brought into being by Ahura Mazda will continue to have their separate existences. There is no prophecy of their re-absorption into the Godhead. As a Pahlavi text puts it, after Frashegird 'Ohrmaid and the Amahraspands and all Yazads and men will be together. .. ; every place will resemble a garden in spring, in which

there are all kinds of trees and flowers ... and it will be entirely the creation of Ohrrnazd' (Pahl.Riv.Dd. XLVIII, 99, lOO, l07).

 

[joelr]

At least one scientist I read recently went into a long explanation about how something came from nothing and what nothing is, not really nothing. And blah blah blah. Then even added gravity into the nothing mix. Yes, I'm laughing here as to how stupid it is. So much for evidence. Of... something vs nothing. Lol...

Then you didn't understand the lecture. In QM something doesn't come from nothing.

However the big bag is real what came before is speculation. There may be endless universes, the big bang may cycle forever. Or something else.

Why would you laugh at a scientist AND say it's stupid because he has no evidence? If you believe an ancient story then you believe FAR MORE with NO EVIDENCE. ZERO EVIDENCE. You don't find that stupid? Man, the confirmation bias is crazy?

 

[joelr]

I don't think God is giving me anything I ask for while 10,000 children die from starvation.

Every day that may children die. I was under the assumption you were asking God for manifestations in your life.

 

[Kenny]

As I thought, it isn't a response then. What you consider "spirit and life" are not in question. The question is do your beliefs have evidence, are they justified, have you chosen to believe stories that are not true and can you demonstrate that.

A muslim may say the same about the Quran and they do. As can a Hindu and a Mormon about the Mormon Bible. None of that suggests it's true.

We look at the same evidence and come to different conclusions... I have said that before.

Muslims and Hindus also look at the evidence and conclude there is a God.

Did you have a point?

I'm sorry your debating skills are a bit lackluster. It would be great if you responded to that actual argument I made rather than a small piece and answer with a strawman.
The scientific evidence shows that mystical experiences are not tapping into a spiritual realm but are brain states that are measured and from lack of oxygen and other casual factors.

Usually people who have to attack the poster and not the information shows that they are running dry on cogent discussion.

Again... looking at the same evidence and concluding two different viewpoints.

 

[joelr]

Yes I don't have to justify my faith to you.

I know, that is what you said. You are telling people you will provide evidence (including me) and then changed to this.

We speak about Bible history and you show your faith and then want to criticise me for faith.

You skipped the actual question. But no, Bible critical-history has evidence. Always. Sources are always shown, reasons for conclusions, historical evidence, literary evidence, comparative textual evidence, intertextuality evidence, and more.
You can deny that historical studies is evidenced and very strict and critical before it accepts knowledge, you can pretend as if it's faith. No one buys that, it isn't true, you are changing what words mean and it just shows you have no answer except to re-invent language which is really just a disguise for denial and conceding the position. So I'm fine with that. If you cannot concede formally, your word salad will do it for you nicely.


So yes, faith is a terrible path to truth.
If there is a way outside the scientific method to provide evidence please explain it. Then explain by what methodology you use to demonstrate your anecdotal personal experience is any different than a Mormon, Muslim, Hindu or any cult where one is 100% convinced of the reality of the claims (on no evidence).

I don't want to dismiss it, I want to know it. If you provide anecdotal evidence that uses "feelings" than you have to show it's not the same as everyone else. Because the billions of humans in Islam are actually on average not different than the humans in your sect of Christianity. On a large scale you are equal. Their personal experience is no different.
You reject all the billions of personal evidence of Mormonism and Islam. Both have important updates, by the same method, revealed knowledge, that you trust. But you reject the evidence when it's them and not you. Seems like a cognitive bias here.

 

[Kenny]

I can understand your position. If your diet is junk food with not meat, veggies, and grain... you have nothing to offer but junk. Bart? Really?

​

Great, go tell the 70,0000 children who will die this week that God has provided.
Just as he provided when he flooded the earth and killed millions of babies.
Just as he got mad at Adam for eating a fruit and made man and women forever into a power struggle, forever, and made chidbirth painful. Evil.

Again. Placing the blame on the wrong person. What are you doing to help the 70,000 children? Your hermeneutical capacity, as an unbeliever, is quite apparent.

The Gospel Jesus is a story, it didn't happen. There is no evidence and massive evidence the stories are all made up from Mark, which is made up of several sources.
Wait, why wouldn't they cause wars? Jesus didn't come to change law and Yahweh ordered all sorts of war, plunder and murder.

Why would you say mankind does nothing? The UN is working hard to fix the starvation problem. Many countries are involved.
Your suggestion about "union with God" is pure fantasy. People have had union with God. In the 1700's 30,000 were killed not because they were looking for personal gain, they were all in church and they all collapsed during an earthquake.
The thousands of priests who abused children were attempting to align with God. There is no evidence this has anything to do with a God?
People could be super generous and compassionate in a secular way and countries are still going to be poor. It's evidence that there is no God, just probabilities.
The Hindu religion has the same morals, ancient Greek morals are similar. Proverbs is known to be using Mesopotamian and Egyptain wisdom literature. So Yahweh just taught stuff people already knew? Clearly, it's all made up by humans, that is what all this demonstrates.

I noticed you keep brining in Hinduism another religions as if you can change the points by doing so. You keep supporting my position when you do that.

So the UN is helping people. GREAT! So we can see that mankind is both the problem and the solution

Food Waste in America in 2024: Statistics & Facts | RTS

Learn how much food American's waste. RTS study outlines its impact on the environment and economy, as well as provides some ideas on how everyday consumers and businesses can help curb food waste. Download the study today.

www.rts.com

"While the world wastes about 2.5 billion tons of food every year" - Do you think that will help the hungry?​

 

[joelr]

Meaningless for you - the power of God for me.

Agiain, with this. Meaningless for you, the power of Thor for me. What does that tell you?

Absolutely nothing. Why? I have not demonstrated Thor is real with any evidence whatsoever.

The question isn't what do you believe. You still dodged the question, then again above with a meaningless preach. Not the discussion. Why I have to reel you in so hard, no idea?

Please provide reasonable evidence for your God if you want to source him.

I'm sure you have a point to this.

The attempt at being witty would have landed had I not destroyed your big apologetics on "special Christian faith" by showing 2 other religions with the same "spiritual faith".

Yes... you can use faith for good and evil such as "there is no God" - a faith statement.

And for false things. You need a method to show which you are having faith in a false belief vs which is true. Islam and Hinduism all have spiritual faith, faith from the heart, faith as a spiritual law, a personal relationship with a deity proves my faith. Blah blah..
Demonstrating none of those things demonstrate your faith is true.
Demonstrating the same style faith can be used to support completely false Gods and scripture and personal relationships. Demonstrating your faith could just as easily be wrong and is not in any way evidence of truth.

You really think Islam, Mormonism (it's Christian???????) and Hindusim don't make the same arguments about faith? They do.

And the members all claim to know it's true because they have a personal relationship with the deity, they feel it in theeir heart, and all the apologetics I heard in Christianity. Also in Islam and Hinduism. It's human psychology, you are told a story about a deity, other people back it up, you believe it, your brain produces the feelings of communicating with the deity among other things.
It's done in Hinduism BIG TIME. Which by Christianity beliefs is not true. Showing it's easily also false in Christianity.





"In the sadhana bhakti we start to build a feeling of relational love with God. Most teachings about God's personality refer to Him as the Supreme Being. It is difficult to feel related to such a personality.
We all have relationships—no one lives in a vacuum—and each of us also has a relationship with the Supreme Person, Krishna. Our basic relationship with Krishna is that of parts to the whole: God is great; we're small. He's like the sun, the ocean, or fire; we're like the sun's rays, drops of the ocean, or sparks of the fire. Ultimately, God is the source of our existence, and we're all parts of His energy. As such, we all have an inseparable relationship with Him.






"How we relate with Him is up to us. Most people in this material world are trying to forget God entirely. The Prema-vivarta and other Vedic writings say that we've come here in the first place because we want to forget God, or Krishna, and He allows us to do that. He doesn't interfere with our free will. He keeps Himself out of sight, maintains us at a distance, and provides all our necessities of life while patiently waiting for us to turn towards Him again.
Sooner or later, however, we become aware of a nagging sense of incompleteness in our lives. We sense we're missing something, and we are, but we don't know what it is. Our eternal relationship with Krishna is the foundation of our very existence, and once we turn away from Him we try anything to fill the infinite void left by His absence—except seek His company. We occupy ourselves with all manner of temporary relationships, material goods, obsessions and addictions, all of which ultimately leave us dissatisfied.

When our dissatisfaction finally becomes unbearable, and we've exhausted all other options, we turn to the Supreme for answers to why we're feeling empty. Krishna then arranges for us to meet His devotees, and from them we can relearn who we are and how to reestablish our lost connection with our source.

We each have a direct, unique, permanent relationship with Krishna. This relationship, or rasa is now dormant but can be reawakened. Hearing and speaking about Him helps us remember who we are, who He is, and what our relationship with Him is. This process of hearing, speaking, and remembering can be carried out in any genuine spiritual tradition, and is generally known as devotional service to God, or bhakti-yoga.

"My personal relationship with Sri Krishna is one of unflinching faith and absolute surrender. I see him as a Guru in the Bhagvad Gita, sharing the wisdom that is needed to lead our lives. I see him as a parent who has set an ideal example for us to follow and who is ever forgiving towards our sins. Krishna is the saviour I call upon when in distress and the friend I share my joy with. He is the hope in my prayer, the courage in my actions and the triumph in my success.

All living entities have an original relationship with God as being His eternal servants. In its liberated state a soul can serve God by being His servant, being His friend, being His parent or by being His lover or wife. In its conditioned, embodied state, the soul is a servant of its body and mind. In any case, the soul is always a servant.

As for the exact relation I have with Krishna in the spiritual world, it will be revealed in due course, when I am sufficiently purified. One’s svarupa (eternal relation with God) is not something that can be taught, it will be revealed in due course by the spiritual master.

 

[joelr]

We look at the same evidence and come to different conclusions... I have said that before.

We do not. You have shown to completely avoid all historical scholarship on the Bible. The field of critical history and archaeology basically all conclude the OT and Gospels are myth with some small historical facts.

All theologians who enter into history leave the faith because they realize it's a myth.

Any small amount of evidence presented you have not shown any counter opinions by experts, you just go "naw". That is just denial. It doesn't show a different conclusion it shows confirmation bias to avoid obvious facts. If one did that with science they would be out of touch with reality.

You are also avoiding reality and evidence in favor of a belief.

Muslims and Hindus also look at the evidence and conclude there is a God.

"God" is deism. Theism is Christianity. Muslims look at their theism and say "God said Christians and Jews are liers. They altered Gods word, used pagan myths, and are going to suffer a painful doom" also Jesus is not God, did not resurrect but is a man.

So your "sources" may believe in God but they sure don't make sense of God like you do. Allah is ver clear you are going to hell. So you do not agree with them any more than you do with me.

It also gives more evidence that revelations are not special divine acts and are made up by people.

Did you have a point?

Think I made it. Thought you would get it, further explanation was required I guess.

Usually people who have to attack the poster and not the information shows that they are running dry on cogent discussion.

Right, usually, like when you went after Goodacre. Here however, I have evidence that you avoided the questions and answered with fallacies, if you forgot I'll revisit them. I can't get an answer out of you so I have no information to attack some posts.


But, we got the same material from several other PhD historians who specialize in Acts. So, please debunk any of their comments, with sources if you want to counter that.

Again... looking at the same evidence and concluding two different viewpoints.

Uh, no. The papers I gave demonstrated the brain changes, chemicals, the states could be produced by manipulating the brain and by exposing it to similar situations that happen in these experiences. Experts demonstrate they are not doing anything but experienceing brain states. Not visiting mystical realms or even leaving their bodies.



The viewpont of the scientist is the viewpoint we are looking at and the reason to source papers. But you seem to want to muddy the water, pretend as if you have a different interpretation. You do not. You are not a neuroscientist, you have not written a peper on this subject with your neuroscience MD with patient studies.

The only viewpoint is what the experts are demonstrating because they understand the subject, what is happening to a ridiculous degree beyond us.

This is like reading a paper on the conservation of energy and saying "I have a different viewpoint". It's more denial and refusal to engage in the discussion.
There is no evidence for the "soul", no evidence it leaves the body to a mystical realm and your "opinion" isn't part of the discussion any more than MY OPINION ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING matters when looking at scientific/medical papers.


You don't get to say Acts is real, you have to provide evidence. The historical, literary, comparitive, intertextual evidence makes it almost 100% that its; a fictive shipwreck narrative. Carrier really destroys it with inconsistancies from the other Gospels.

 

[joelr]

I can understand your position. If your diet is junk food with not meat, veggies, and grain... you have nothing to offer but junk. Bart? Really?

You mean the historian with several peer-reviwed works? Great, I'm glad you feel that way.
Please present something Bart Ehrman did to consider him junk in the historical field. I know he destroys the credibility of your mythology being history.
Please show a PhD historian who debunks him so bad, that he would be called "junk food".
Actually I just heard Dr Richard Miller and dr Carrier say Jesus Interrupted is the best layman work for understanding the general consensus on Jesus studies in the field. They advised that as a start to understand NT scholarship.

So I look forward to that. Since Jesus Interrupted was sourced by 2 PhD, please explain, with experts, why Bart is junk.

He has many free lectures as well. Please show me where he is junk food and explain why. Show me the scholarship in critical history that renders him junk food.

​

​

​

Again. Placing the blame on the wrong person. What are you doing to help the 70,000 children? Your hermeneutical capacity, as an unbeliever, is quite apparent. ​

I told you, it's none of your business, but I sent the link to donate. I don't need to announce my contribution.

HA, "hermeneutical capacity, " that means I don't buy into ridiculous apologetics that make Yahweh a good God when the OT is evil and suffering is everywhere.

​

​

​

I noticed you keep brining in Hinduism another religions as if you can change the points by doing so. You keep supporting my position when you do that.​

Sorry, I thought you were a bit more clever, I was reaching, My bad. So by demonstrating Hinduism also has the same faith rules yet has a different demigod, different supreme God, different theology, no Jesus, no heaven, no saved from sin, yet the same faith apologetics and the same relationship apologetics, and it';s false, it shows that all of those apologetics can support a false belief.

While it doesn;'t prove another religion (Christianity) who makes similar claims false it does show that just having those claims do not equal truth. Then you need a methodology to show how your faith claims are real while the exact same in another religion are false.

Personal relationships with Lord Krishna are clearly false. You claim personal relationships with Jesus or Yahweh are real. Yet both make similar claims. By what method do you know when you are actually in a personal relationship? Hindu are 100% certain. They also feel it in their heart and Krishna speaks through emotion and they feel the spiritual communication subtle always, watching over, and the love from Krishna.

I see you both are manipulating yourself psychologically. By what empirical method is this worked out?

Also you claim you have a faith
'spiritual law" which for some reason is supposed to make it more valid. It doesn't, it's still faith, but
I'm playing along because other religions also do the same. And they are false, so that line of reasoning does not actually prove anything is true.
You STILL NEED EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE. And a methodology to determine when a spiritual faith means it's a faith in a true religion.

Or, is it really just "faith". Yeah I think it really is. Not a reliable method to find what is actually true.

​

So the UN is helping people. GREAT! So we can see that mankind is both the problem and the solution​

Right because an infinite God isn't powerful enough, donations are needed. This makes much more sense if it's all just random and probabilistic.

​

Food Waste in America in 2024: Statistics & Facts | RTS

Learn how much food American's waste. RTS study outlines its impact on the environment and economy, as well as provides some ideas on how everyday consumers and businesses can help curb food waste. Download the study today.

www.rts.com

​

"While the world wastes about 2.5 billion tons of food every year" - Do you think that will help the hungry?​

No but that backs up what I am saying.
There is no God helping or is no God to help. Unless he likes to sit back and watch suffering.
But he doesn't exist, and now it makes so much more sense!
As we see, 10000 children dying daily, disease mortality rates following probabilities exactly, the universe is probabilistic, like QM demonstrates.

No deity is helping at all. Everything falls into place, because God is a mythology, thanks for helping out.


some Ehrman to explain where he's wrong, please source.

1:45 Critical scholars recognize sources are not reliable and one must be skeptical to get history from them.



1:57 The Gospels are not pretending to be history, they are making some proclamation about Jesus. So to read them just as history is a bit silly, it’s like trying to read David Copperfield as history. You can get some history out of that but…it’s fiction.


The Gospels have legend in them. They are important books and not without some history.


3:04 There are atheist scholars, like me. You don’t just trash works because of legends. You try to find out what’s history.


3:45 Fundamentalists say “there can be nothing wrong in the Gospels”, conspirators atheists say “there can be nothing right”, both sides are not correct.


4:55 What scholars do is analyze the sayings of Jesus and try to figure out what is real or fiction.



7:10 Storytellers were making up sayings for Jesus after his death.

Most People Have No Clue What The Gospels Are!


5:04 Scholars realize the Gospels are saying different things


8:30 Ehrman on apologist arguments



10:09 Did the disciples write the Gospels, no, historical evidence says no. There are very good reasons how this is known. They do not claim to be eyewitnesses and written by very high level Greek writing. The illiterate people in the story were not the writers.


12:35 Did the Gospel authors care about what actually happened. -


The Gospels contain historical information and they contain legendary information.


14:40 Can we trust the canonical Gospels? Gospels date probably from 40-65 years after Jesus death. NT writers would not have known eyewitnesses but may have sources who knew stories.


These stories have been passed down for many many years. Each writer probably thought they were writing the “one” Gospel.

Genesis, White Jesus, and Debating the Resurrection (with Dr. Bart Ehrman



22:50 It has to do with how do you know what happened in the past. Can you say somebody was raised from the dead never to die again? Is that like a historical statement or…it’s a Christian belief, but is it historical? How do you decide what’s historical? How many historians who write books about the 2nd World War claim that the allies won because God intervened at the Battle of the Bulge? If you are going to do it with Jesus how do you justify that?


25:17 No historian (from that time) chronicles any events you find in the Gospels, there are huge historical problems with the Gospels.


26:30 He (Mike Licona) is wrong, the implications that you can prove Christianity to be true are troubling and problematic.





28:23 The Gospel accounts of Jesus resurrecting are not historical and do not pass any historical criteria.


(After this interview Ehrman held a day long debate with Apologist/fundamentalist Mike Licona explaining why the Gospels are not history)


Side note, Licona admitted in a debate that the story about Saints raising from the grave during the resurrection were not literally true. He was immediately fired from the fundamentalist university where he worked.


32:12 Jesus central message was wrong. He believed the end of the world was coming in his own generation, all the forces of evil would be destroyed, resurrection of the dead, kingdom of God would come. (This is a Persian myth, Dr Ehrman doesn’t get into other myths, he just deals with what’s in the Gospels and it’s OT origins)

 

[Brian2]

One of our god says first ask question ask why this religion is good and how then belief in it.
And main thing respect all the religion. Belief them even if it’s not your religion.

It is a big ask to believe other religions that you do not believe.

 

[Brian2]

Every day that may children die. I was under the assumption you were asking God for manifestations in your life.

I would like it if God managed to convince evil rulers to do the right thing and make sure that the hungry in the world are fed.
I would like it if God manifested Himself to me so that I had no doubts.
But what point are you wanting to make?

 

[Brian2]

I know, that is what you said. You are telling people you will provide evidence (including me) and then changed to this.

No I don't think so. I think I remember giving some evidence for the Biblical God and you saying it was BS and posting 100 quotes and videos supposedly showing that, but which were based on false assumptions about the Bible and religion in general.
IOW your false faith in those things led you to further false conclusions.

I don't want to dismiss it, I want to know it. If you provide anecdotal evidence that uses "feelings" than you have to show it's not the same as everyone else. Because the billions of humans in Islam are actually on average not different than the humans in your sect of Christianity. On a large scale you are equal. Their personal experience is no different.
You reject all the billions of personal evidence of Mormonism and Islam. Both have important updates, by the same method, revealed knowledge, that you trust. But you reject the evidence when it's them and not you. Seems like a cognitive bias here.

We have been over this argument of yours already.
I suppose that because you don't know what faith is, you say such things.

 

[YoursTrue]

Then you didn't understand the lecture. In QM something doesn't come from nothing.

However the big bag is real what came before is speculation. There may be endless universes, the big bang may cycle forever. Or something else.

Why would you laugh at a scientist AND say it's stupid because he has no evidence? If you believe an ancient story then you believe FAR MORE with NO EVIDENCE. ZERO EVIDENCE. You don't find that stupid? Man, the confirmation bias is crazy?

Sooo stupid Physicists Debate Hawking’s Idea That the Universe Had No Beginning | Quanta Magazine

 

[YoursTrue]

You mean the historian with several peer-reviwed works? Great, I'm glad you feel that way.
Please present something Bart Ehrman did to consider him junk

Here's more junk...exercise your brain...lol
www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-debate-hawkings-idea-that-the-universe-had-no-beginning-20190606/

 

[YoursTrue]

Do let me know when you can defend your position.

Scientists like these defend my position showing the ridiculous lengths some would try to go to. www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-debate-hawkings-idea-that-the-universe-had-no-beginning-20190606/
Did the universe have a beginning? Maybe yes say some scientists maybe no say other genius scientists.