There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[Subduction Zone]

This is only half true:
“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:1, 3‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So by faith when I walk around and live in this world I perceive God created all I see, I wasn’t there at Creation but I have an internal sense He did and want to know Him. This faith causes me to seek God and when I did He answered and delivered me, He gave me His Spirit, so now I do know Him and don’t need faith for that anymore because I received something already from God. What I haven’t received yet is life with God in Heaven because I’m down here on Earth. This takes faith, I only received part of my inheritance.

Sorry, but you just showed that the Bible is wrong again.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Another person who builds a strawman to criticise. You concoct your own definition and then make fun of it.

Definition of faith

1 : strong belief or trust I have faith in our leaders. 2 : belief in God. 3 : a system of religious beliefs : religion people of all faiths. 4 : loyalty to duty or to a person or thing The team's true fans keep the faith.



Please substantiate your statement. I'm not the one denying the facts.

I don't see evidence anywhere listed in those definitions. Faith is a belief based upon a lack of evidence.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I said "Faith in God requires evidence."

You replied:



Really? Do you really have faith in things or persons you have no knowledge of?

No, I don't. Faith is not a pathway to truth. I avoid faith. Now you are probably going to try to claim some of interactions are faith based due to a lack of understanding of human nature on your part. And to make matters worse you are trying to employ a Tu Quoque fallacy.

I tell you this, I do not trust things or people I do not know. I want evidence and proof. And when I see positive proof I accept it. For example, there are only two biological genders. The scientific proof is undeniable and I accept that. Lo and behold, Scripture makes the same claim./quote]

Sorry but scripture does no such thing.

Know this, God revealed Himself in many ways in history. That had been documented. I accept the proof. I have solid reasons to believe in God. My faith is rational.

No, that has not happened either, and that has been demonstrated by the believers in this thread. I doubt if your belief is rational. I have yet to meet a Christian with a rational faith. Best of luck proving it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Who said it is. Who said anyone thinks the Bible is true because they believe in it?

You are criticising your own strawman.

I believe in and trust God because of the evidence. God has proven Himself over and over to be trustworthy. I cannot deny the evidence. To deny facts is ludicrous.

Incorrect. Look at how believers have weakly tried to justify faith here and only confirmed that the Bible is wrong in the process. As to your "evidence" very few believers understand the concept. So far you have shown that I am not using a strawman fallacy.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Isn't that a statement that faith is nothing but hope? And what is the substance of hope? Nothing but a statement of preference.

Also, it's incorrect. Faith is insufficiently evidenced belief, nothing more or less. We believe things by one of two methods: compelling evidence properly understood (critical thinking), and belief without this. The latter is faith

And evidence of things not seen? That's an incoherent idea. It's not evidence if it isn't evident. The mind receives messages from the physical world. These are evidence when the senses and the mind apprehends them. Evidence of what is a different matter, and requires one be facile in reasoning to arrive at sound conclusions after considering what has become evident.





You've accepted by faith that a perfect, loving God exists, and so you see nothing else from this god. Other have mentioned the Garden and Flood stories. No unbeliever considers the deity in those stories blameless, but every unbeliever does. That's the evidence of a faith-based confirmation bias. Only those wearing it see a blameless god, because they assume it before examining the evidence. Even if you can't see past that, perhaps you can notice this dichotomy and try to account for it as I have. Why do all of these people outside of Christianity disagree with the understanding of believers, people you assume are wrong?

Everything hinges on how one processes evidence. Does he use it to derive sound conclusions, or does he use it to confirm his faith-based beliefs?

If I didn’t believe there was a God I would’ve never called out to Him for help. When I called if He didn’t answer and do something for me I wouldn’t be here saying He did. Not sure what would’ve become of me, hopeless, jail, dead, living on the streets. But no, in my right mind, successful, a family, full of hope, peace, purpose and know where I’m heading.

 

[ppp]

If I didn’t believe there was a God I would’ve never called out to Him for help. When I called if He didn’t answer and do something for me I wouldn’t be here saying He did. Not sure what would’ve become of me, hopeless, jail, dead, living on the streets. But no, in my right mind, successful, a family, full of hope, peace, purpose and know where I’m heading.

Do you think that is evidence that your god is real?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Sorry, but you just showed that the Bible is wrong again.

You will have to explain

 

[ElishaElijah]

Do you think that is evidence that your god is real?

Of course, this was just the beginning of then35 years I’ve been walking with God, He has done much more since.

 

[ppp]

Of course, this was just the beginning of then35 years I’ve been walking with God, He has done much more since.

I have heard this same statement from a lot of people about the gods of a lot of different religions. Both mono and polytheistic. Also about spirits spirits and astrology.

Is that evidence that all of their gods and entities are real?

 

[ElishaElijah]

I have heard this same statement from a lot of people about the gods of a lot of different religions. Both mono and polytheistic. Also about spirits spirits and astrology.

Is that evidence that all of their gods and entities are real?

Maybe real spirits because there are all kinds of demonic spirits, there is 1 Holy Spirit and I could test the spirits and tell you about those you’ve heard from is that “hearsay” from other people?

 

[ElishaElijah]

@Policy
Consider this, people are going to see this person and see what he is doing and will follow the wrong guy, to their own destruction.
“Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
‭‭II Thessalonians‬ ‭2:1-12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[ppp]

Maybe real spirits because there are all kinds of demonic spirits, there is 1 Holy Spirit and I could test the spirits and tell you about those you’ve heard from is that “hearsay” from other people?

But all that you're giving me is hearsay. Your claims are indistinguishable from theirs.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You will have to explain

Faith is not evidence. Perhaps the translators screwed up, but that verse contradicts itself. It sounds nice, but it is nonsense.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Random events can produce complexity, this is an objective fact, since among other examples species evolution demonstrates it to be the case.

Nothing random about them. And science starting to understand this . It makes the atheist uncomfortable, which is why they are pushing unrealistic scenarios like multiple universes.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Complexity is not a proxy for intelligence. Blind nature routinely assembles very complex entities.

Duh... the point is, natures process aren't blind... that's just an assumption and one that is falling away in science.

 

[Wildswanderer]

One can observe a human being being assembled in a womb with no intelligent oversight

Backwards thinking ..the fact that it's a complex process of creating shows us a designer.

 

[ElishaElijah]

But all that you're giving me is hearsay. Your claims are indistinguishable from theirs.

You mean like wheat and tares growing together? How is my personal testimony hearsay? The information about other people and their experience you are telling me is hearsay.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Does that make sense to you? One example of a person changed without a god belief falsifies your position.

Obviously you don't understand what I mean by change.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nothing random about them. And science starting to understand this . It makes the atheist uncomfortable, which is why they are pushing unrealistic scenarios like multiple universes.

What events do you think are not random?

 

[Sheldon]

Arguments about the rationality of belief in God mostly boil down to this:
(1) Faith in God requires evidence.
(2) No such evidence exists (skeptics claim).
(3) Therefore, belief in God is not rational, they say.

No they don't, rationality is defined in accordance with the principles of logic. So the arguments theists present can only be judged as rational or not on that basis alone.

1. Religious faith does not require evidence, it's in the definition.
2. If no objective evidence exists for this belief, then what's your basis for disbelieving any other claim?
3. Who is they? So far only you have said this, and again something is rational if and only if it is in accordance with the principles of logic.

There is evidence of God. Christians believe God reveals Himself through His deeds – like, for example, the created universe.

Firstly you are contradicting your second assertion above, secondly that is not evidence, it is a claim. Watch carefully, the universe is evidence for a universe creating Leprechaun. Now explain how my hypothetical is any less credible than yours?