There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[Wildswanderer]

So it went from being 'not alive' to being 'alive'.

Don't be absurd.

 

[Polymath257]

Who has a closed mind? Depends where you are standing. Yours look very closed from where I'm standing.

It looks to me like he is willing to consider your evidence. You have yet to give any.

 

[Polymath257]

Don't be absurd.

Was your food alive when you ate it? No.

Is the matter from that food alive in you now? Yes.

So that matter went from not-alive to alive.

 

[Wildswanderer]

The question isn't whether non-life can turn into life. The question is whether it is possible without the intervention of something living.

None of your examples are life springing from something that's not alive, let's get real.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Is *what* natural? Aesthetics?

Aesthetics is one type of judgement humans make. I don't see it as an ontological question at all.

You can't see that as you can see e.g. a cat. You use see as understand and that is in your mind. That is no useful.

 

[Polymath257]

None of your examples are life springing from something that's not alive, let's get real.

Actually, they are all examples of non-living material becoming alive. They involve the intervention of living things. But that the matter went from not-alive to alive is indisputable.

One of the difficulties in this subject is that it is necessary to be very precise about what is being asked.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Is the matter from that food alive in you now? Yes

No.

 

[Polymath257]

No.

The material that was in your food and that now makes you up is not now alive?

Really? Even if some of the proteins, DNA, or other chemicals in your body are made from that material?

 

[Wildswanderer]

The material that was in your food and that now makes you up is not now alive?

Really? Even if some of the proteins, DNA, or other chemicals in your body are made from that material?

Food nourishing what's already there isn't food becoming alive. If that works, you could mash together some food and make a baby.

 

[Polymath257]

Food nourishing what's already there isn't food becoming alive. If that works, you could mash together some food and make a baby.

What do you think it means for food to 'nourish' you?

The chemicals in that food are broken down and reassembled into the chemicals that make up your body.

No new atoms are formed. No atoms are destroyed.

Everything in your body ultimately came from your food, water, or the air. Everything.

You are alive because you are the materials in your food, water, and air, but arranged in a particular way. The materials you ate were not alive. But now they make up *you* and are living matter.

So, yes, that food is 'becoming alive': it goes from not alive to alive.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Lol, that's a weird place to go. I'm using your definition of proof for God... What's that thing atheists always say? Oh yeah, " I'll believe in God when he reveals himself to me."

When I observe life coming from non life in nature with no interference from man then I'll believe it. As of now it sounds like fantasy land. Like something that happens in comic book.

First off it is not "my definition" it is the definition that many creationists use. Second sorry, but even using the legal definition of "prove" you still cannot prove your mythical God. You still need evidence and you do not only not have any, you do not seem to understand the concept. That along with your unwillingness to learn means that one of the reasons that you d o not have any evidence is because your fear will not allow you to present any.

 

[Subduction Zone]

We have known the essentials for day one...when we literally walked with God. Men have a tendency to forget however.

Once again, you would need to prove the Bible to make that claim. Right now everything about it tells us that it is a myth.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Spiderman comics name real characters and real places as well. That doesn't make all of them real.
That people living at the time mentioned real people and places that existed at the time isn't very remarkable. And it doesn't make the extraordinary claims of the Bible true in the slightest, any more than mentioning New York City and Joe Biden in a Spiderman comic makes Spiderman a real person.

Hold it! I am thinking of switching sides!! Spidey lives!

Accepting other myths is a small price to pay for Spiderman. Tell us SkepticThinker . . . why do you hate Spiderman?

 

[ElishaElijah]

OK, that is a claim. Now, can you show how that leads to a better understanding of the universe than the standard claim?

What observations does your claim predict? What phenomena does it suggest will happen? How many decimal places does it add to our understanding of some measurement?

We have two models:

One has a God that made the universe and that is not himself created.

The other has no God and the universe not created.

Why is the first one a better explanation of *anything* than the second?



OK, so that is what you (and others) see. Why is that the correct interpretation? Why does that make the Bible correct?

The Bible explains life, our purpose, who created us and why, wisdom and understanding of our world, way to eternal life and victory over sinful patterns, power to live a holy life.
How does your view of life empower you over lust, un forgiveness, hatred, envy, covetousness, perversions, addictions etc.?
As far as what’s going to happen in the future, God has shown with accuracy future events and the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. Although He hasn’t shown the exact day of His coming but like a thief in the night and told us to be sober and watchful in our prayer.
Have you read the Prophets? Don’t you see what’s happening in our world? Racing towards a one world government perfect for the one world leader to emerge, the antichrist.
This is not the work of natural selection.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God created nature. Of course I enjoy what God created. Without him it would just be another pointless accident. Fortunately, nature gives evidence for a designer and artist to the one who chooses to believe in the artist.

Just for fun let's say that God created nature. Couldn't he have created nature so that live evolved the way that he wanted it to?

You have some gall to try to tell God how he made life and instead want to listen to what some Hebrew priests (almost certainly during the Babylonian exile) put on paper and sold it as "God wrote this". You really, really should study the history of the Bible a bit.

 

[Subduction Zone]

None of your examples are life springing from something that's not alive, let's get real.

Part of the problem is the words that you use. In abiogenesis life did not "spring" either. Changes accumulated until enough of the trends were there to call it "alive". The problem is when does one draw the line? If it is at "reproduction" then that has already been accomplished, But since neither the parent or daughter cells qualify as being alive by other tests those studying the topic do not stop there and say "Eureka! We have solved it!" Was it when RNA was first introduced into the cell? I would not say at that time either.

How do you define life biologically? You need to use proper biological terminology.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Bible explains life, our purpose, who created us and why, wisdom and understanding of our world, way to eternal life and victory over sinful patterns, power to live a holy life.
How does your view of life empower you over lust, un forgiveness, hatred, envy, covetousness, perversions, addictions etc.?
As far as what’s going to happen in the future, God has shown with accuracy future events and the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. Although He hasn’t shown the exact day of His coming but like a thief in the night and told us to be sober and watchful in our prayer.
Have you read the Prophets? Don’t you see what’s happening in our world? Racing towards a one world government perfect for the one world leader to emerge, the antichrist.
This is not the work of natural selection.

The prophets all fail when one reads them without prejudice. Also, you need to know when some books were written. They were not all written by the people with their names on them.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So life from life is observable every day. Big deal. That's not the question.

You're all over the place.

 

[ppp]

It's odd isn't it, I mean I have always loved the song Amazing Grace as well, it was created to provoke emotion after all, and I am an atheist. A song however is clearly not evidence for the claims in it, it'd be asinine to believe it was.

Yeah. I like it too. I like a lot of religious songs. For the ones that are more about the experience of faith and than a narration of doctrine. The ones I learned in church as a kid have a special place in my heart. But still not a reason to believe.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Hold it! I am thinking of switching sides!! Spidey lives!

Accepting other myths is a small price to pay for Spiderman. Tell us SkepticThinker . . . why do you hate Spiderman?

His costume (uniform?) is too tight!