There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[Sheldon]

No, evil is not a witness. People are not perfect and some are incredibly not perfect. In fact the Argument of Evil is one that religions do not seem to have a good answer to. In other words the existence of evil tells us that there probably is no God.

Theologians have struggled for millennia to explain this paradox, it's called theodicy.

 

[ElishaElijah]

you're not getting this are you, what is the objective difference between what you perceive as a no to a prayer, and no deity existing to answer a prayer?

I don’t think we will ever come to any sort of agreement unless you have a life changing encounter with God for yourself. You can’t seem to get that alot of people know God but you haven’t yet.
When I pray and get a no to a request that’s just one part of the conversation with God. Prayer is much more than me asking for things. I think you and I see prayer a lot different.

 

[Sheldon]

Sheldon said: ↑
you're not getting this are you, what is the objective difference between what you perceive as a no to a prayer, and no deity existing to answer a prayer?

I don’t think we will ever come to any sort of agreement unless you have a life changing encounter with God for yourself.

Debate is the antithesis of agreement.

You can’t seem to get that alot of people know God but you haven’t yet.

According to you, and you can't understand why I don't believe you apparently.

When I pray and get a no to a request that’s just one part of the conversation with God. Prayer is much more than me asking for things. I think you and I see prayer a lot different.

Cool story, now since you completely ignored the question, what is the objective difference between what you perceive as a no to a prayer, and no deity existing to answer a prayer?

 

[Stonetree]

I lost count of how many times I prayed to God in Jesus' name when I was a child and teenager, pleading with God in Jesus' name to save me from being abused by my adopted mother and adopted older brother (click here). I prayed to God in Jesus' name, pleading with God to save me from being bullied and harassed in school. For me, praying to God was like praying to a brick wall and expecting the wall to answer, because in spite of all the years I prayed to God in Jesus' name, I suffered abuse at home for 13 1/2 years and I was bullied in school for 12 years. I finally came to the realization that God wasn't ever going to save me, so I stopped praying to him for a couple of years. I lost hope in him and I resigned myself to the life I knew I could never escape until I turned 18 years old.

I saved myself shortly after I turned 18 when I physically confronted my abusive older brother and told him that I would call the police on him if he ever laid hands on me again. I'm pleased to say that my forceful confrontation with him also made a lasting impression on my adopted mother, because she never laid a hand on me again either. Neither would stay in the same room with me after that.

I had lost my hope in God, but I had been indoctrinated into believing in him no matter what, so I foolishly became a Christian when I was 17. As the Bible states in Romans 10:9-13 about getting saved, I believed in my heart that God raised Jesus from the dead and I declared him Lord. I still remember the moment I prayed to be saved vividly because I felt absolutely nothing in my heart when I accepted Jesus. I didn't feel the peace, joy, or hope that I was expecting to feel after hearing other Christians talk about how they felt such peace and joy in their hearts when they accepted Jesus as their lord and savior. I wanted that more than anything else in life. These Christians said that their burdens were lifted and they felt hope again. All I felt at the time was the usual pain and sadness.

I can't emphasize just how deeply disappointed I was when I didn't feel my burdens lifted or feel hope in God again. I was completely overwhelmed with sadness and a feeling of hopelessness. I foolishly held on to my Christian faith for the next 30 years while willingly ignoring the nagging reminder in my heart that God didn't save me when I was growing up. I was a very devout Christian because I had been taught that the more devout I was to God, the more likely he was to answer my prayers. The Bible states, "The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective" (James 5:16), and I sincerely believed Jesus' promise, "And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son." "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it" (John 14:13-14).

I renounced my Christian faith and belief in God about a year and a half ago. It was very difficult for me to let go of my belief in God because I had believed in him all my life and I had been a Christian for 30 years. As far as I'm concerned now, either the Christian God doesn't actually exist and I was a complete fool for believing he did, or the Christian God does exist and he's a malicious and sadistic monster who takes pleasure in watching me and the rest of humanity suffer. I'm an agnostic now, so I could go either way on this.

I have had experiences similar to that which you have described, though mine differ as to degree. I do not like to admit my belief system or lack there of. I do not blame a Christian God for abuses suffered at the hands of persons or person. So much has been made of scriptures that were written by man. Churches that were established by men who demand they had a direct line to some almighty supernatural power and have the right to administer sacraments that sustain spiritual life(these Churches) are not valid.IMO

 

[ElishaElijah]

Debate is the antithesis of agreement.



According to you, and you can't understand why I don't believe you apparently.



Cool story, now since you completely ignored the question, what is the objective difference between what you perceive as a no to a prayer, and no deity existing to answer a prayer?

The question is so ridiculous and it’s like asking when your Dad said no was it the same as not having a Dad? I mean you really asked the question, and wanted an answer too. Mega

 

[dybmh]

The question is so ridiculous and it’s like asking when your Dad said no was it the same as not having a Dad? I mean you really asked the question, and wanted an answer too. Mega

I think it would be good to answer the question. Pretend we're in kindergarten. How can you tell the answer is "no"?

 

[Sheldon]

The question is so ridiculous and it’s like asking when your Dad said no was it the same as not having a Dad? I mean you really asked the question, and wanted an answer too. Mega

Ah I see, you really don't understand the question. Well if it helps, people have objective evidence for the existence of their fathers. For one it is a biological impossibility to not have a father. So not just subjective anecdotal claims, as you have offered.

So now that your false equivalence fallacy has been dealt with, can you explain what the objective difference is between what you perceive as a no to a prayer, and no deity existing to answer a prayer? Only you seem to be tap dancing around the question.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

The question is so ridiculous and it’s like asking when your Dad said no was it the same as not having a Dad? I mean you really asked the question, and wanted an answer too. Mega

Faulty logic. False equivalence. Loose thinking.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I think it would be good to answer the question. Pretend we're in kindergarten. How can you tell the answer is "no"?

That’s true it does seem like a kindergarten question, and wasn’t a serious question now was it?

 

[rational experiences]

In human life on gods earth as named by old men of science as the God types terms.

You either supported a holy life with natural God or......
You were a theist satanic scientist who by human technology changed gods type.

Into unnatural technology earth nuclear conversions.

So in the olden days you were either for God remaining sealed intact holy life or were a scientist using technology.

Pretty basic earth human science choice belief.

What an irradiated mind interfered with by AI feedback today believes is inconsequential to the status why a human only argument existed for or against God terms.

As it's only a humans argument.

 

[ElishaElijah]

For one it is a biological impossibility to not have a father. So not just subjective anecdotal claims, as you have offered.

There are plenty of fatherless children, so how about you ask a legitimate question. Does IVF count as having a Dad? Never know these days

 

[rational experiences]

I was indoctrinated Catholic teachings afraid because of the teaching.

But lived spiritually by choice and not religious. Reviewed lots of friends and their religions.

So I stopped praying to God as I'm realistic. Instead I prayed for earths loving living light to return to heal my family. ....by mind and body.

As a psychic spiritual healer study I knew earth needed holy light to be returned. And I prayed for some answers.

So my living spiritual father. First father plus any of my spiritual deceased brothers memories updating everyday told me his conscious loving advice . Taught me.

As he invented all terms earths sciences as just a human and a man.

And he loved me. He respected me. He taught me what we needed to choose as humans to gain holy light again.

And it involved human technology and greedy rich men. Being stopped.

Hence I knew we already lost as we can't overcome greedy rich men and his want of technology. As he already thinks the thesis agrees and it's destructive.

As when a scientist theoried to build a nuclear bomb our family visions being blown to pieces was involved in that thesis.

Is why you won't win against him.

In the past if he dared to speak such evil he'd be thrown in gaol.

Why every single spiritual man teacher ever has been ignored.

 

[dybmh]

That’s true it does seem like a kindergarten question, and wasn’t a serious question now was it?

It makes an asumption; you could clear it up if you wanted to. I don't see why not.

 

[ElishaElijah]

It makes an asumption; you could clear it up if you wanted to. I don't see why not.

Well the original person asking the question said a no answer wasn’t good evidence of anything and I think so what but also shows that people seem to be ignorant of what prayer is in the first place, so that’s what I’m getting at.
Prayer is not a wishing well and not to treat God like a genie in a bottle. Like is there a secret formula

 

[joelr]

What’s your point, seems you’re arguing with yourself or an imaginary person.

It's a bit odd to be worried about me arguing with an imaginary person when your whole thing here is that you are having a relationship with what seems to be an imaginary demigod from old myths?

The point of this post is to point out that your treatment of people whom have left the church is very non-Christian. Judgmental, no compassion.

And if you claim to be speaking to a deity, with words, then it is a great chance to provide evidence. Ask your deity for a string of numbers.

 

[joelr]

Yeah Jesus Christ and the apostles are the born again group John 3, Acts 2, Romans 8, and others

You already misinterpreted John 3. I'm asking, what Christian group do you belong to? You are not part of JC and his apostles because they are fictional characters from a story but also the founders. Either way you are not in that group.
The Church of Latter Day Saints has a new group of 12 apostles. They are in the version started by Joe Smith who translated an ancient record written by prophets who lived on the American continents and taught and testified of Jesus Christ.
Now Jesus and God appeared to Smith to explain all the other sects are incorrect so that's a bummer for you being in an incorrect version.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ah I see, you really don't understand the question. Well if it helps, people have objective evidence for the existence of their fathers. For one it is a biological impossibility to not have a father. So not just subjective anecdotal claims, as you have offered.

So now that your false equivalence fallacy has been dealt with, can you explain what the objective difference is between what you perceive as a no to a prayer, and no deity existing to answer a prayer? Only you seem to be tap dancing around the question.

He simply cannot understand the question. He has a natural defense mechanism that arises due to his fears.

 

[joelr]

Prayer doesn’t have healing power, go pray all day to that rock if you want, or that statue. It’s God that heals, prayer is how I communicate with God.
Your kind of prayer and what the other posters are saying about prayer is more like witchcraft.

Wow, that's just what Muslims and Hindu say as well. But just in case your version is real, ask God for a string of numbers.

 

[joelr]

My question was very relevant because you fail to understand prayer and the question is the same. Did your parents give you everything you asked for as a kid?
Does God give you everything you ask for as His child?
See how you avoid easy, simple questions?

Parents are real. They were not imaginary friends where anytime you needed something you managed to get it and then gave credit to your imaginary parents. And when you didn't get it you used this post hoc rationalization that they "can't get you everything"?

The purpose of prayer is to communicate with God, to know Him and get His perspective on things, not to get your own way or twist Gods arm to get what you want.

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father in secret shall reward thee openly. Matthew 6:5-6



Elijah was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up. James 5:14-15

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

`
Sounds like witchcraft.

 

[joelr]

When I got saved the covenant I made with God was to turn away from all sin and trust Him with my life. My life is not my own, He can do whatever He wants with me. He has made me an heir and adopted me, given me eternal life. So for God not to say yes and give me everything I ask in prayer can be hard sometimes because I don’t understand it at the time. The more life goes on and I continue to trust and seek Him the less I feel the need to get my own way.

In this religion the common people, the poor and the needy, directly attain a more profound and personal relation to the deity. The believer loses his individual consciousness in enthusiasm and receives the divinity into himself. In moments of orgiastic ecstasy he experiences the ultimate goal of his existence, abiding fellowship with the god, who, as redeemer and savior will free him through death from the finiteness, the suffering, and the exigencies of the earthly life.


A description of the Greek Dionysus religion during the Hellenistic period. They thought the same thing.


This leaning toward a "physical" and cosmic extension of redemption is an approach to Hellenistic conceptions. Paul's representation of the believer as living and suffering in Christ, as crucified, buried, and raised with him, recalls the similar way in which the Hellenistic mystery-religions relate the believer to the dead and risen god (Attis, Osiris, Adonis).