"There is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood."

[BruceDLimber]

This theory is problematic. First, it doesn't fit the narrative.

Our scriptures fit the narrative very well, thankyouverymuch!


Bruce

 

[CMike]

Yes, i know.

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”


Psalm 104:29 When you hide your face, they are disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust.

Ecclesiastes 3:20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.

if you are relying on this so-called 'world to come' to obtain salvation, it doesnt provide any. The hebrew scriptures clearly state that death does not lead to life. You wont move onto a better place.... you will return to 'dust' according to your scriptures.


.

The body, not the soul.

 

[Desert Snake]

Our scriptures fit the narrative very well, thankyouverymuch!


Bruce

How?......

 

[Sleeppy]

So who thinks that they are superior?

Jews, Christians, and Muslims.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Putting yourself in danger doesn't mean you are sacrificing your life.

Jews at least believe that you don't have to be jewish to get to heaven.

Christians believe that everyone who isn't christian will burn in hell.

So who thinks that they are superior?

Many (most?) Christians don't believe that, actually.

 

[CMike]

Many (most?) Christians don't believe that, actually.

It's part of their bible.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's part of their bible.

Like approval of slavery and wife-beating is part of the Torah?

Exactly where in the Bible do you think it says that all non-Christians burn in Hell?

Have you bothered to look at the teachings of any actual Christian denominations? Some (e.g. the Catholics) teach that even though God established their church and its doctrines, He isn't bound by them (and can therefore save whoever he wants). Others (e.g. many Protestants) teach that Hell isn't "fire and torment" but actually "separation from God". Still others (e.g. the Mormons) believe that Hell is reserved only for the worst sinners. Others (e.g. Christian Universalists) believe that everyone goes to Heaven. And some denominations (e.g. the Quakers) don't have teachings about the afterlife at all but instead focus on what they should be doing here on Earth.

 

[Pegg]

The body, not the soul.

what is the 'nephesh'

 

[Pegg]

It's part of their bible.

no its not.

what does the hebrew word 'sheol' mean?

 

[Desert Snake]

It's part of their bible.

Some Christians believe that, not all by any means.
Btw up until recently RCC wasn't even considered under the 'Christian' term umbrella, people would commonly use the term 'Christian ' to differentiate from 'Catholic,

'Christianity' is a massive umbrella term is what I'm getting at, many different beliefs.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Our scriptures fit the narrative very well.

How?......

They dovetail well with it, and even go on to explain various ambiguities.

You can read them yourself and see this at these sites:

• Bahá'í Library Online (click "Writings" for our scriptures)
• Baha'i Reference Library (this site is multilingual)

Peace,

Bruce

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Some Christians believe that, not all by any means.
Btw up until recently RCC wasn't even considered under the 'Christian' term umbrella, people would commonly use the term 'Christian ' to differentiate from 'Catholic,

By "people", do you mean "narrow-minded Protestants who were ignorant of the history of their religion"?

There have always been people with wacky, counter-factual ideas, but there has never been a time in the history of the Catholic Church when it wasn't considered Christian.

 

[Desert Snake]

By "people", do you mean "narrow-minded Protestants who were ignorant of the history of their religion"?

There have always been people with wacky, counter-factual ideas, but there has never been a time in the history of the Catholic Church when it wasn't considered Christian.

Actually Catholics oftenly referred to non-Catholics as 'Christian.
I'm not interested in having some emotional argument with you, don't really care enough, just letting CMike know that there are differing beliefs in Christianity.

 

[CMike]

what is the 'nephesh'

Soul.

 

[Pegg]

Soul.

Do you know why the Hebrew Union College removed the word 'soul' from the Torah in its translation of 1962?

“the Hebrew word in question here is ‘Nefesh.’ ...Other translators have interpreted it to mean ‘soul,’ which is completely inaccurate. The Bible does not say we have a soul. ‘Nefesh’ is the person himself, his need for food, the very blood in his veins, his being.”—The New York Times, October 12, 1962.

Living beings (human and animal) are souls.

 

[CMike]

Do you know why the Hebrew Union College removed the word 'soul' from the Torah in its translation of 1962?

Yeah, so? It still means soul. Hebrew Union College is a left wing institution.

You can't remove a word from the Torah. You may mistranslate it though.

And I really don't care what the NYT analysis is of jewish scripture.

Living beings (human and animal) are souls.

In Judaism, we have souls. Our body isn't our soul.

 

[Pegg]

Do you know why the Hebrew Union College removed the word 'soul' from the Torah in its translation of 1962?

Yeah, so? It still means soul. Hebrew Union College is a left wing institution.

You can't remove a word from the Torah. You may mistranslate it though.

And I really don't care what the NYT analysis is of jewish scripture.


In Judaism, we have souls. Our body isn't our soul.

if thats what you believe, then Judiasm is no longer basing its beliefs and teachings on the Torah....which is very sad.

The word used in the Torah (nephesh) means the living person or animal. It doesnt mean a separate entity within the body of a living person.

Numbers 31:28 As a tax for Jehovah, you should take from the soldiers who went out into the battle one soul out of every 500, of the people, the herd, the donkeys, and the flock.
The 'one soul' in this case is clearly the living person or animal.

Joshua 22:5 Only be very careful to carry out the commandment and the Law that Moses the servant of Jehovah gave you, by loving Jehovah your God, by walking in all his ways, by keeping his commandments, by sticking to him, and by serving him with all your heart and with all your soul.”
Again the 'soul' in this case is the living person who eats and breaths.

1Kings 2:4 And Jehovah will carry out his promise that he made concerning me: ‘If your sons pay attention to their way by walking faithfully before me with all their heart and soul, there will never fail to be a man of your line sitting on the throne of Israel.’
Walking faithfully with all your heart and 'soul' shows that it is a living person being called a 'soul'
Living breath person. Not some mystical invisible spirit inside a living person.


And the most convicing verse in the Torah which proves the soul is the living breathing person is this:

Ezekiel 18:4 Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so also the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul who sins is the one who will die.

The soul dies. It is not eternal.

 

[Thief]

Do you know why the Hebrew Union College removed the word 'soul' from the Torah in its translation of 1962?



Living beings (human and animal) are souls.

How did you find the note on that removal?
Not wanting to digress...just curious the pathway.

 

[Pegg]

How did you find the note on that removal?
Not wanting to digress...just curious the pathway.

it was reported on in an interview with the chief editor in the New York Times, October 12, 1962.

 

[RabbiO]

Do you know why the Hebrew Union College removed the word 'soul' from the Torah in its translation of 1962?

Yeah, so? It still means soul. Hebrew Union College is a left wing institution.

You can't remove a word from the Torah. You may mistranslate it though.

There was no Hebrew Union College translation. The New York Times article was referencing the (then) new Jewish Publication Society translation.

Furthermore, there is justification for the change in translation. I would point out that the late, revered, Aryeh Kaplan translated לנפש חיה as "living creature." Also Joseph Hertz, who was the Orthodox Chief Rabbi in Great Britain, and whose chumash was for years the chumash in the English speaking world, noted that "living creature" was, perhaps, a better translation than "soul."