There is no Proof that God Exists

[K.Venugopal]

For God's existence:
His name being ****** into an Iceberg from above the clouds
or Him coming down to this planet and proclaiming he's God in some flagrant display of power that would convince the world (nullifying gravity would be sufficient) he's God. Basically something unanimously described as impossible

Against:
I have no clue what could irrefutably disprove God's existence, almost everything I can think of can be countered.
Recreating the big bang would be a heavy blow to fundamentalists but as I see it God could have easily used the mechanics of the universe to assist in creation.

you have any ideas?

Maybe proof may never be proof enough when we get into the "what if" mood. Doubting Thomas needed that little extra proof. Even if God were to come down from heaven there would be folks that say it is only a laser display and not the real thing. After all, proof that the twin towers were brought down by rogue planes are not sufficient for the conspiracy theorists.

 

[Azekual]

Maybe proof may never be proof enough when we get into the "what if" mood. Doubting Thomas needed that little extra proof. Even if God were to come down from heaven there would be folks that say it is only a laser display and not the real thing. After all, proof that the twin towers were brought down by rogue planes are not sufficient for the conspiracy theorists.

True, but conspiracy theorist are occasionally right ( Panama canal, Bay of pigs, assassination of Julius Caesar, etc were real conspiracies.), and you never know when they will turn out to be right. So I listen with an objective ear.

If God turned off the gravity of the whole planet, nobody would dare say he's not God.

 

[atanu]

For God's existence:
His name being ****** into an Iceberg from above the clouds

I could not understand this.

 

[Azekual]

I could not understand this.

I was jokingly implying one of the only ways for people to universally accept God exists is for him to urinate his name into an Iceberg from heaven

 

[crocusj]

True, but conspiracy theorist are occasionally right ( Panama canal, Bay of pigs, assassination of Julius Caesar, etc were real conspiracies.), and you never know when they will turn out to be right. So I listen with an objective ear.

If God turned off the gravity of the whole planet, nobody would dare say he's not God.

That would make him a superior being but not necessarily the supreme being.

 

[Azekual]

That would make him a superior being but not necessarily the supreme being.

We are operating under the assumption that God is the only one capable of turning Earth's gravity off.
Though I must ask, how would you ask a being, that just turned off gravity, to prove it is the supreme being of this universe

 

[crocusj]

We are operating under the assumption that God is the only one capable of turning Earth's gravity off.
Though I must ask, how would you ask a being, that just turned off gravity, to prove it is the supreme being of this universe

But it's crucial. Or at least it is crucial as to whether God is infinite or not. He may be the only one (as creator) who can turn the gravity off but only infinity makes Him the supreme being, anything less makes Him created and therefore a lesser god or no god at all, just another being. So, in effect, proof of His existence is not proof of His ultimate divinity and so what if He can write his name on an iceberg if he can be switched off himself tomorrow. Proof of God does not end with proof of His existence, since any being more powerful than ourselves would appear godlike to us so yes - I would ask for more. Of course, that would beg the question of whether God is a believer or not.

 

[Relentless]

Before you start raining hellfire and brimstone, there is no proof against God either. Confused about where this is going? Let me explain.

Before we go any further, let me make something clear:

Belief/faith =/= to know

A lot of people believe they're interchangeable, when in reality they are not.








Christianity is a Faith based religion. You Choose to Believe that God exists and obtain Salvation. Faith means you Choose to believe in God without proof. If irrefutable proof (the kind that makes nearly everyone agree about it) ever arose for or against God's existence, two big things would happen:
1) Faith would become knowledge, rendering salvation null and void.

2) When you have Knowledge of God, you no longer have a choice to believe. It's a worship or risk ******* him off scenario (you know he exists, thus are expected to Worship). With the inverse: God doesn't exist so any worship is pointless.

If God does exist ( I personally believe he does), he's not going to give proof of his existence until He decides to begin the Rapture and Tribulation, and proof against his existence will never come.

If he doesn't exist, then proof for his existence will never come and proof against it may or may not pop up eventually.

In the end, no proof of his existence/nonexistence is currently available, hopefully this will end all arguments (knowing my luck it will start a whole new one).

Why does everyone take religion so seriously? Believe if you want and if you don't want to then more power to your elbow. It's really that simple.

"Faith is the evidence of things hoped for, that are not seen".

This means that at one time I believed I would get something.... when I finally got it, my faith in that thing became knowledge. The same goes for our relationship with God. First we pray in faith, then our faith is rewarded with knowledge.

My knowledge is not subject to your perceptions, just like your knowledge is not subject to mine.

 

[Azekual]

This means that at one time I believed I would get something.... when I finally got it, my faith in that thing became knowledge. The same goes for our relationship with God. First we pray in faith, then our faith is rewarded with knowledge.

alright, I'll agree with that. But faith only becomes knowledge after death, or if God appears here on earth, until then all you have is faith. agreed?

 

[Azekual]

But it's crucial. Or at least it is crucial as to whether God is infinite or not. He may be the only one (as creator) who can turn the gravity off but only infinity makes Him the supreme being, anything less makes Him created and therefore a lesser god or no god at all, just another being. So, in effect, proof of His existence is not proof of His ultimate divinity and so what if He can write his name on an iceberg if he can be switched off himself tomorrow. Proof of God does not end with proof of His existence, since any being more powerful than ourselves would appear godlike to us so yes - I would ask for more. Of course, that would beg the question of whether God is a believer or not.

believer in what? He has omniscience, belief is an obsolete concept to him.
Even if he is not infinite, our species has a binding contract with him (covenant for those unaware) and because his words is law, and he swore to never lie, the contract must be fulfilled if the conditions are met.

 

[atanu]

---- But faith only becomes knowledge after death, ----

Not necessary, as far as i know.

 

[Azekual]

Not necessary, as far as i know.

If you have faith in God and die, your faith will either be reaffirmed (god ushering you into the afterlife) or your faith will be refuted (you cease to exist).
In that way, faith will become knowledge after death

 

[crocusj]

believer in what? He has omniscience, belief is an obsolete concept to him.
Even if he is not infinite, our species has a binding contract with him (covenant for those unaware) and because his words is law, and he swore to never lie, the contract must be fulfilled if the conditions are met.

Well, if he's not infinite then he does not have omniscience (except where we are concerned) and if he has a creator then his contract with us might well prove meaningless if he crosses that creator, here's hoping that belief is not indeed obsolete to him after all. So, to avoid confusion, were God to manifest himself and thus provide proof of his existence he would also have to provide proof that he is in fact the infinite supreme being and not just a powerful being with dominion over us
and since nullifying gravity would not actually do this I don't see it as proof. But then I'm just being picky (and rambling) and it is as you said at the beginning and all down to faith and you either have that or you don't. Proof is unlikely to be forthcoming.

 

[Azekual]

it is as you said at the beginning and all down to faith and you either have that or you don't. Proof is unlikely to be forthcoming.

Thank you! Someone finally grasps that concept!

How would his infinity affect his omniscience?

 

[Azekual]

I believe in God because of faith. Faith is a virtue by which we firmly believe in the words of God, all the truths he has revealed.

Another one hits the nail on the head!!

 

[outhouse]

If you have faith in God and die, your faith will either be reaffirmed (god ushering you into the afterlife) or your faith will be refuted (you cease to exist).
In that way, faith will become knowledge after death

faith will not become knowledge after death, if you die and the shows over.

you will not know anything in death if its like going to sleep and not dreaming because the brain cannot.


I have no faith in afterlife drempt up by ancient man with influences from previous primitive religions.

 

[Azekual]

faith will not become knowledge after death, if you die and the shows over.

you will not know anything in death if its like going to sleep and not dreaming because the brain cannot.


I have no faith in afterlife drempt up by ancient man with influences from previous primitive religions.

I'm not saying you keep the knowledge long. I'm just saying that the second before your soul blinks out, you probably realize theres no afterlife?

 

[outhouse]

I'm not saying you keep the knowledge long. I'm just saying that the second before your soul blinks out, you probably realize theres no afterlife?

first you need to prove one even has a soul. lets call it what it is, when your "life stops".



what will happen, either way. Is that you will quit breathing and your life will be over. You will not have time to know, one way or the other.

I feel ancient mans fear of loosing all he had worked for, including being a king. A fear that could be addressed by a imaginary afterlife.

If you owned a kingdom you would not want to let all that go in a afterlife. What made christianity so popular is the everyday common man could have a afterlife not just a king and one could not buy his position in said mythical place, if one led a good life "IF" he gave his faith to that particular god.

 

[logician]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. There is none that I see in "god" proofs.

 

[Azekual]

first you need to prove one even has a soul. lets call it what it is, when your "life stops".



what will happen, either way. Is that you will quit breathing and your life will be over. You will not have time to know, one way or the other.

I feel ancient mans fear of loosing all he had worked for, including being a king. A fear that could be addressed by a imaginary afterlife.

If you owned a kingdom you would not want to let all that go in a afterlife. What made christianity so popular is the everyday common man could have a afterlife not just a king and one could not buy his position in said mythical place, if one led a good life "IF" he gave his faith to that particular god.

If that's the case then why isn't the Ancient Egyptians religion still round? You took your **** with you when you died (though the burial was expensive)