There is no Proof that God Exists

[Azekual]

True but if he expects to be worshiped then he should at least provide a good case for his existence. Then there's also the question of why he wants worship. You could still argue that people worship God out of fear of hell rather than love for what he's done.

Worship is a means not the ends. God wants (in my opinion) to return humanity to his side.

 

[9Westy9]

Worship is a means not the ends. God wants (in my opinion) to return humanity to his side.

In that case what is your view on who will be saved?

 

[9Westy9]

I believe that you can find proof through prayer. You can pray to know God is there, and through patience and sincere heartfelt prayer, God can make Himself known unto you. Be it in His own timing. Many have done this, and you cannot say against someone else's witness that God has proven His existence to others through prayer, or a bit more uncommonly He has shown Himself physically. This is stated in the scriptures, if you would like I could give you a reference.

Instead of quoting scripture, would you care to give a modern case of god revealing himself?

 

[Azekual]

I believe that you can find proof through prayer. You can pray to know God is there, and through patience and sincere heartfelt prayer, God can make Himself known unto you. Be it in His own timing. Many have done this, and you cannot say against someone else's witness that God has proven His existence to others through prayer, or a bit more uncommonly He has shown Himself physically. This is stated in the scriptures, if you would like I could give you a reference.

The problem with God revealing himself through prayer is that things he never truly gives you 100% certainty it was him. There is always that tiny bit of doubt left.
Things God answers through prayer usually seem as if they would have happened by chance if you take a close enough look at the evidence. Whether God did it and framed chance (that's my humor for the day) or it was all chance, is really your call, but either way it's inconclusive and thus prevents faith from becoming knowledge.

 

[Azekual]

In that case what is your view on who will be saved?

Basically, it boils down to whoever has faith in Christ as their savior.
A personal relationship with God is good also a good idea.
basically that's it.

 

[9Westy9]

Basically, it boils down to whoever has faith in Christ as their savior.
A personal relationship with God is good also a good idea.
basically that's it.

So basically you're saying that God wants to return humanity to his side, but only the ones who trust in Christ as their saviour? If that's so why does he not give a large amount of evidence for himself? Instead he seems to use human beings to tell us his will via the bible. Seems a touch strange to me.

 

[Azekual]

So basically you're saying that God wants to return humanity to his side, but only the ones who trust in Christ as their saviour? If that's so why does he not give a large amount of evidence for himself? Instead he seems to use human beings to tell us his will via the bible. Seems a touch strange to me.

Because knowing without a doubt that Christ is your savior is not trust.

 

[idav]

There is a reasonable limit.
If you imagine a giant spaghetti monster could be proven/created in the near future, you should probably re-evaluate your decision to withhold judgement.

Same can be said for most gods or myths imagined by humans.

 

[9Westy9]

Because knowing without a doubt that Christ is your savior is not trust.

Exactly. I'd rather follow something I know is true than something I have to trust in.

 

[Azekual]

Same can be said for most gods or myths imagined by humans.

Very well, I'll concede you that.
However, if you choose to take a religion, you should not expect evidence.
Agreed?

 

[idav]

Very well, I'll concede you that.
However, if you choose to take a religion, you should not expect evidence.
Agreed?

Sure why not but I'd take your previous posts into serious consideration.

Yes.
You can choose to believe something in that situation, however, you must take special care to understand that it can easily be wrong and that it is only your opinion (and to treat it as such).

\There is a reasonable limit.
If you imagine a giant spaghetti monster could be proven/created in the near future, you should probably re-evaluate your decision to withhold judgement.

 

[Azekual]

I do understand that my religion may be wrong and I do not expect proof for its validity to be coming.

 

[9Westy9]

I do understand that my religion may be wrong and I do not expect proof for its validity to be coming.

That makes you 100 times better than most other christians

 

[crocusj]

. Many have done this, and you cannot say against someone else's witness that God has proven His existence to others through prayer,

Well, probably you can but nomatter. Applying this logic would also mean the converse - that unanswered prayers are proof of his nonexistence.

 

[charles brough]

I believe that you can find proof through prayer. You can pray to know God is there, and through patience and sincere heartfelt prayer, God can make Himself known unto you. Be it in His own timing. Many have done this, and you cannot say against someone else's witness that God has proven His existence to others through prayer, or a bit more uncommonly He has shown Himself physically. This is stated in the scriptures, if you would like I could give you a reference.

Anyone familiar with psychology, suggestion, self-hypnosis and hypnotism looks at your post as being niave. If you want to believe something, try to believe it and keep at it, you can get yourself to believe it. A woman whose house burned down and all her possessions lost except a paper angel what was stuck into a board was happy to think she was witness to a "miracle." She wanted to believe it to relieve her anguish.

I don't think people need to rationalize and use suggestion on themselves in order to deal with anguish. I am happy to look at the world and myself realistically.

And what does the presense of war most years of my life time prove? That the faithful don't pray for peace?

 

[Corkscrew]

I believe that there may be something behind the energy in our universe. There are too many unanswered questions about the reality that we live in to rule anything out. I, however, absolutely do not believe in any of the Gods that man has conjured up. Man’s religion does an injustice to the magnificence of this universe.

 

[outhouse]

There are too many unanswered questions about the reality that we live in to rule anything out.

humans have a mind that over thinks everything. Imagination will leed the mind astray.

I find no reason to believe in something because we imagine it has a possibility.

 

[Azekual]

That makes you 100 times better than most other christians

Thank you..... I think

 

[Corkscrew]

humans have a mind that over thinks everything. Imagination will leed the mind astray.

I find no reason to believe in something because we imagine it has a possibility.

I agree with you, I too find no reason to believe in something because we imagine it has a possibility. But that is different from ruling something out. I do not close my mind to possibilities because I know we don’t understand everything. I’m a big fan of science, but it doesn’t have all the answers. In fact the things that we do understand may be very superficial to the knowledge we are lacking. Einstein stated that when it comes to unraveling the true nature of things, we are like school children.

 

[Desert Snake]

Before you start raining hellfire and brimstone, there is no proof against God either. Confused about where this is going? Let me explain.

Before we go any further, let me make something clear:

Belief/faith =/= to know

A lot of people believe they're interchangeable, when in reality they are not.








Christianity is a Faith based religion. You Choose to Believe that God exists and obtain Salvation. Faith means you Choose to believe in God without proof. If irrefutable proof (the kind that makes nearly everyone agree about it) ever arose for or against God's existence, two big things would happen:
1) Faith would become knowledge, rendering salvation null and void.

2) When you have Knowledge of God, you no longer have a choice to believe. It's a worship or risk ******* him off scenario (you know he exists, thus are expected to Worship). With the inverse: God doesn't exist so any worship is pointless.

If God does exist ( I personally believe he does), he's not going to give proof of his existence until He decides to begin the Rapture and Tribulation, and proof against his existence will never come.

If he doesn't exist, then proof for his existence will never come and proof against it may or may not pop up eventually.

In the end, no proof of his existence/nonexistence is currently available, hopefully this will end all arguments (knowing my luck it will start a whole new one).

Why does everyone take religion so seriously? Believe if you want and if you don't want to then more power to your elbow. It's really that simple.

Wrong! We do make a choice to 'believe' in things that we otherwise know. In fact, 'belief', usually means adhere to, for Theists; Unless the context is not about God.