McBell
Admiral Obvious
Why does this deity of yours allow The Satan so much leeway?
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There is not enough erosion of the continents for them to be many 10s of millions of years old.
- Thread starter SavedByTheLord
- Start date
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I am going to disagree with the explanation given there. Some fossil graveyards are due to catastrophic floods. Now are poor uneducated friend does not seem to realize that uniformitarianism allows for catastrophic floods. Basically uniformitarianism says that the laws of physics and chemistry were the same in the past as they are now. That is all. And we know at times there were very localized catastrophic floods. We can see variations on it today. There are videos of flash floods and those are just average ones. But there are occasional flash floods that cannot be escaped if one is in the river bottom. If a migrating herd gets caught in such a flood then one can have huge deposits. If those floods occurred in the same place, say once in a thousand years. over millions of years you can get a truly amazing number of fossils built up. One thing that this hypothesis predicts is that such finds would always be very localized. The means not spread across states. That all of the fossils found in a layer would be of that time period. And the various flood models would have to predict the opposite of that. Well we see that those massive dinosaur graveyards are always very localized. Usually to ancient river valleys. And the dinosaurs are always of one time period. We do not see a T-Rex with a Brontosaurus for example.
An example of one such graveyard:
I started debating creationists in the 1980's. The misinformation and arguments have not changed *at all* since that time. In fact, most of the stuff can be found in Gish's 1972 book.
It doesn't matter that each and every one of the arguments has been refuted in multiple ways over time. It doesn't matter that those who write these diatribes are not even qualified in the subjects they write about. As in the case of *all* conspiracy theories, what matters is that the experts are wrong, probably lying, and that the world just isn't what they claim.
In a sense, I think creationism is an ancestor of the flat-earth conspiracy and climate denial. It started the idea that all of the experts are lying to the masses and that the conclusions of science shouldn't be trusted *at all*. Of course, with creationism, you also get that the scientists are in league with the devil and trying to lead people away from the *one true religion*.
That is your belief and should be stated as such. Other people have different beliefs in this regard. Also, the actual evidence is contrary to this belief.
What's so difficult to explain? yes, there were floods in the past. Sometimes those floods captured a herd of animals and buried them together. This happens *today* as well.
And yes, we know of very large floods that happened in the past: look at the scablands in Washington, which arose because of a flood produced when a lake in Montana burst through its dike. This was a purely natural phenomenon.
But we also know there was never a *global* flood of the sort described in the Bible.
AdamjEdgar
Active Member
because we are not robots. Christians believe that the Bible reveals that our creator gave us freewill.
AdamjEdgar
Active Member
you really believe that claim given that it has already been shown by scholars that flat earthism is a modern 19th and 20th century claim?
We have proof that neither ancient greek nor early christian scholars beleived in flat earthism. How is it you dont know these facts? Atheism is so easily convinced by wive tails when they deny christianity...its like a lolliepop
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
And creationism is not much older. In the US it can be traced largely to various fundamentalists in the 19th century.
As to the Bible you have it backwards. It never openly supports a spherical Earth and quite often appear to support a flat one. One has to do creative reinterpretation to come up with a spherical Earth. Yes, the Greeks and other seafaring nations new that the Earth was a sphere, but we are talking about what the Bible says.
Are you trying to discount nature using science?
All that is required is to prove the earth is 6000 and 1 yrs, to prove bible is wrong.
Stay in your lane.
So is the modern version of creationism. In fact, it is a modern, fundamentalist, reaction to the 19th century growth of science. How is it you don't know this?
I was talking about modern creationism, which is a thoroughly modern movement. maybe you should read the book 'The Battle for God'?
SavedByTheLord
Well-Known Member
6 day creation is believe since Adam and Eve and by countless people since. The false science of billions of years and evolution began in the 1800s. Of course creationists countered these lies and science creationists are very good with science used science to counter the false science of evolution and billions of years.
AdamjEdgar
Active Member
are you attempting to agree with me, becaused that is exactly what my point was...that it is modern attempts at refuting YEC because of the rise of naturalism that resulted in the spread of flat earthism rumours as a reason why the traditional biblical view must be wrong!
The ancient Greeks for example, did not believe in flat earth.
AdamjEdgar
Active Member
sorry but im going to call you out on that one!
I dont care what some redneck nutters in the US might believe, the fact is, such a belief isnt supported biblically, by early church fathers 2 millenia ago...or the ancient Greeks!
We can easily prove that the Isaiah scrolls for example have language that dates back to at least half a millenia BC. It is likely Isaiah was about 700 B.C if memory serves. In any case, he was pre Babylonian captivity [lnk added after my off the cuff memory serves claim]. So given that major writer is very ancient, its pretty well accepted Moses writings are even more ancient. It not possible to make the claim creationism is a modern doctrine...those 19th Century US rednecks you talk about obviously demonstrated an outrageous ignorance of scriptural history!
And before any TEist thinks they have theological support for a non literal reading of Genesis regarding creation, the flood, and destruction of Sodom and Gomorah...
I will start refuting that beginning with the following:
2 Peter 2
4For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell,a placing them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; 5if He did not spare the ancient world when He brought the flood on its ungodly people, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, among the eight; 6if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction,b reducing them to ashes as an example of what is coming on the ungodly;c 7and if He rescued Lot, a righteous man distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if all this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.
Clearly both Jude and Luke believed that the destruction of Sodom and Gomorah was a literal event as they both quote the desctruction like the apostle Peter above!
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You are not listening, but you never do.
How are you going to prove your claims about the Isaiah scrolls? They have been dated reliably to be much younger than that:
The exact authors of 1QIsaa are unknown, as is the exact date of writing. Pieces of the scroll have been dated using both radiocarbon dating and palaeographic/scribal dating. These methods resulted in calibrated date ranges between 356 and 103 BCE and 150–100 BCE respectively.[5][6] This seemingly fits with the theory that the scroll(s) was a product of the Essenes, a mystic Jewish sect, first mentioned by Pliny the Elder in his Natural History,[7] and later by Josephus[8] and Philo Judaeus.[9]
Isaiah Scroll - Wikipedia
AdamjEdgar
Active Member
you know its funny how individuals who have terrible biblical history and really havent studied theology at all think that they are on a winning ticket with the above...not realising that they have dog barked up an empty tree!
Read my post again...carefully! Ill give you a hint...is the king james bible 2000 years old like the dead sea scrolls? Of course not, but the text from which it originally came most definately is that old! Do you now get my point about the Isaiah scrolls?
You might ask yourself...after you read isaiah, why doesnt he make any mention of the israelite captivity of Babylon, Medo Persia, and even Greece given (as you claim) it was written only about 1 century before Christ? Something wrong there amigo...and the answer is, because Isaiah had already been dead for well over a hundred years prior to the Babylonian captivity!
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Once again you are not listening. Your argument was refuted by that. Your post did not deal with the previous one. You got distracted by the concept of flerfs. So I gave up on an argument that you couldn't follow and dealt with your latest false claim.
AdamjEdgar
Active Member
dog barking up trees...there is nothing more ridiculous than an individual with almost no theological knowledge trying to refute biblical history! Your claim about creationism being modern was utter nonesense...i moved on from that because its just plain stupid!
If you cannot conceptualise how my referecing the writings of Isaiah refuted your previous nonesense...then my point in this post is made!
btw, Im not saying youre dumb...i think you are probably smarter than i am, however, when it comes to theological knowledge and referencing,, well thats a completely diffrerent story!
I still like to know why you left religion btw. ( i dont recall if you have actually told me)
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Oh please. You have no such knowledge yourself. Your.ignorant claim was refuted.. You have a bad tendency to try to insult others when you have been shown to be wrong.
And until you can demonstrate some honesty on your part personal questions are not allowed.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
this is even more fumbled up than your usual posts.
You been drinking?
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Hahaha....
I love it when creationists bring that up. They think they are making a point, but little do they realize that it in fact means instread defeat of their own drivel.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
It actually wasn't.
I know creationist like to spread that lie though.
Yes, yes... I'm sure you can name a handfull of deliberate frauds that were in fact exposed by the science you wish to argue against and pretend as if those handfull of deliberate frauds are then the "standard" for all scientific evidence, while completely ignoring that you only know about those frauds because scientists themselves exposed them as such.
Hilarious.
