There is not enough erosion of the continents for them to be many 10s of millions of years old.

[Subduction Zone]

Hahaha....

I love it when creationists bring that up. They think they are making a point, but little do they realize that it in fact means instread defeat of their own drivel.

He could have made a worse mistake. He could have mentioned archaeoraptor. That example only underscores the importance of modern day peer review.

 

[Colt]

That is not a good excuse. Most of Jesus's parables are not real life events. They are stories told to get a point across, to teach morals. etc. Why can't the myths of Genesis be the same?

In fact if you actually understood those myths and truly read them literally God is the bad guy in most of them. In the Garden of Eden myth God screws up by setting Adam and Eve up to fail and then blaming them for their failure. That is not a good lesson to teach others as being literally true.

You last paragraph is clearly wrong since the number of Christians that claim that God is a liar as you do are in the majority. Most Christians do not read the book of Genesis literally.

Mark the date! We agree on something! The Hebrew authors/redactors/editors didn't originally claim to be writing by inspiration. That claim came later after the return from Babylon on the part of religious authorities in Judaism. Originally Genesis was a teaching tool that conveys spiritual lessons to a largely illiterate audience. The Israelites were scattered and dejected at the time of the finalization of the Old Testament books. The ordinary secular history books of the Israelites vanished!

 

[SavedByTheLord]

Mark the date! We agree on something! The Hebrew authors/redactors/editors didn't originally claim to be writing by inspiration. That claim came later after the return from Babylon on the part of religious authorities in Judaism. Originally Genesis was a teaching tool that conveys spiritual lessons to a largely illiterate audience. The Israelites were scattered and dejected at the time of the finalization of the Old Testament books. The ordinary secular history books of the Israelites vanished!

So they were making stuff up?

No they were inspired by God and most is actual history. How does one make up historical accounts.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. - 2 Tom 3:16-17

 

[Colt]

So they were making stuff up?

No they were inspired by God and most is actual history. How does one make up historical accounts.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. - 2 Tom 3:16-17

Yes, they exaggerated their history! The Israelites converted a relatively ordinary secular history into a miraculous fiction! They appropriated Mesopotamian religious lore about an ancient couple, Adam and Eve, and connected their blood lines in order to establish an authoritative line of descent. The ridiculous flood myth and parting sea as well an many other bold exaggerations in the scripture should be obvious to adults in this age.

Paul's letters are inciteful but Paul isn't God! His opinions were his own! Unfortunately Paul hijacked the Jesus movement and took it in a different direction which made compromises with Paganism in order to sell them on his Gospel.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

Yes, they exaggerated their history! The Israelites converted a relatively ordinary secular history into a miraculous fiction! They appropriated Mesopotamian religious lore about an ancient couple, Adam and Eve, and connected their blood lines in order to establish an authoritative line of descent. The ridiculous flood myth and parting sea as well an many other bold exaggerations in the scripture should be obvious to adults in this age.

Paul's letters are inciteful but Paul isn't God! His opinions were his own! Unfortunately Paul hijacked the Jesus movement and took it in a different direction which made compromises with Paganism in order to sell them on his Gospel.

And you bought that?
Sorry but it is all inspired by God Almighty and even proves itself in many ways.
And no one said Paul is anyone other than a man. All the writers of the Bible were inspired by God to write what they wrote.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. - 2 Tom 3:16-17

 

[Colt]

And you bought that?
Sorry but it is all inspired by God Almighty and even proves itself in many ways.
And no one said Paul is anyone other than a man. All the writers of the Bible were inspired by God to write what they wrote.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. - 2 Tom 3:16-17

Then God got a lot wrong!

 

[SavedByTheLord]

Then God got a lot wrong!

Please prove one.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So they were making stuff up?

No they were inspired by God and most is actual history. How does one make up historical accounts.

One inflates numbers. One ignores losses. One pretends that God was on their side. Have you forgotten how God could not help in one battle because the opponents had iron chariot wheels? I can give you chapter and verse if needed. Your God does not sound at all omnipotent there.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. - 2 Tom 3:16-17

Even if true "inspiration" does not mean true. It does not mean accurate. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Also please note that says "scripture". What the heck is scripture? The Bible is clearly not scripture. At least not all of it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Please prove one.

Been there done that bought the t-shirt.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

Been there done that bought the t-shirt.

Well you bought the crazy evolution and billions of years story.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well you bought the crazy evolution and billions of years story.

What makes you think that it is crazy? Why do you think that God is a liar?

 

[SavedByTheLord]

What makes you think that it is crazy? Why do you think that God is a liar?

God never lied but Satan deceives many including all those that believe in evolution and billions of years.

 

[Polymath257]

6 day creation is believe since Adam and Eve and by countless people since. The false science of billions of years and evolution began in the 1800s. Of course creationists countered these lies and science creationists are very good with science used science to counter the false science of evolution and billions of years.

Not the 'false science', but the 'actual science'. There was no *science* for the age of the earth prior to these investigations. There was a legitimate scientific discussion in the late 1700s to the middle 1800s. After that, there was no serious scientific question that the Earth is *at least* tens of millions of years old (Lord Thompson did some calculations based on heat exchange that questioned a longer age than that, but the discovery of radioactivity showed his error).

After the early 1900s, the *only* discussion of the legitimacy of evolution overall (as opposed to mechanisms) was based on religious dogma and NOT on scientific grounds.

 

[Polymath257]

are you attempting to agree with me, becaused that is exactly what my point was...that it is modern attempts at refuting YEC because of the rise of naturalism that resulted in the spread of flat earthism rumours as a reason why the traditional biblical view must be wrong!

The ancient Greeks for example, did not believe in flat earth.

Huh? YEC was refuted solidly in the early 1800s, long before the rise of fundamentalist ideology.

The 'rise of naturalism' is just another way of saying 'the rise of scientific investigation'. And the goal was NOT to 'refute' YEC, but rather to discover the truth by looking at the evidence. many of the early investigators *expected* to find evidence for a global flood, for example. But, they were also honest enough to say that they did NOT discover anything to support their previous religious views.

Today, you will find that flat earthers are much more likely to be fundamentalist (because of a flat earth view in the Bible).

 

[Polymath257]

sorry but im going to call you out on that one!

I dont care what some redneck nutters in the US might believe, the fact is, such a belief isnt supported biblically, by early church fathers 2 millenia ago...or the ancient Greeks!

Actually, it would be good for modern fundamentalists to take heed to the views of Augustine:
"Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn."

He was talking about astronomy, but also mentioned biology. The creationist view is precisely the modern version of what Augustine was warning against.

Augustine was quite willing to take much of the Bible as metaphor and NOT literal. In fact, that was the predominant view of MOST of the early church fathers.

 

[Polymath257]

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. - 2 Tom 3:16-17

Please note that when this was written, none of the New Testament would have been considered to be scripture. Also, the determination of what, precisely, would go into the Old Testament wasn't completely settled.

So, how do you determine what is and what is not scripture at that time?

 

[Polymath257]

A further quote from Augustine:
"If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion.”

The point is that the ignorance of creationists only paints all Christians in a bad light. The fact that they put the Bible above the actual evidence can be seen clearly by others and that is quite enough to condemn their viewpoint.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God never lied but Satan deceives many including all those that believe in evolution and billions of years.

Then why do you keep claiming that your God is a liar? I never made that claim. You did.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Actually, it would be good for modern fundamentalists to take heed to the views of Augustine:
"Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn."

He was talking about astronomy, but also mentioned biology. The creationist view is precisely the modern version of what Augustine was warning against.

Augustine was quite willing to take much of the Bible as metaphor and NOT literal. In fact, that was the predominant view of MOST of the early church fathers.

Yeah, but he was a Catholic

Ironically you will probably run into that argument from fundamentalists.

EDIT: And Happy Birthday!!!

 

[SavedByTheLord]

Yeah, but he was a Catholic

Ironically you will probably run into that argument from fundamentalists.

EDIT: And Happy Birthday!!!

Augustine had many heretical beliefs.