These Students will change US gun landscape

[Audie]

That's a very confident statement. Did you coat your walls in vibranium or something?

Yeah, I can agree with that. Personally, I would prefer if the guy sitting next to me at a café didn't have a gun on each hip, one on each shoulder, and one shoved down his pants for good measure.

It is not practical to try to break into an apt such as this in NYC.

I sleep well in that assurance. Dont try to spoil it!!

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Um, is that sarcasm or?

Does Oz have a population of frustrated terrorists or crazies who are, um, doing what?

Prease exprain.

Yeah, sarcasm. We regulated guns better and haven't had a mass shooting since, and the crazies just stay frustrated.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Totally agree.

There is a law of unintendec consequences ...

What would the carzies turn to if deprived of guns?

Something way worse?

I took chemistry enough to know things that are not to
even mention.

It's why I get so adamant about these types of subjects because if guns are vilified something else will be, and I think that's what affects our society in part.

People get on these legislative freight train rides and try to vilify and criminalize everything in sight if it's something that a deranged person uses for nefarious purposes. The media spams the airways with whatever is in Vogue creating more and more tension and propagandizing situations into something that's way more than it is.

I remember how things like this started with the Tylenol scare paving the way were everything in sight must be sealed now, the bombings of Ted Kaczynski the Unabomber, the anthrax scare affecting postal services and such where people are running around trying to look for a white powder in their envelopes to the point where you have news coverages of SWAT/MOPS teams swarming around a letter that turns out to have something akin with baby powder in it. Now it seems guns are at the forefront plastering pictures of guns in greyed out blurry darkened tones that make it looks even more evil and nefarious than ever promoting a picture that anyone who even touches a gun is the essentially the devil incarnate up to no good and hunting down your children.

Hell I remember books and things about bomb-making and explosives disappearing in light of the media frenzy during the Unabomber days. It gave me the impression that everybody who had an interest in chemistry was a potential killer waiting in the wings ready to pounce on the innocent.

Vilify enough, it becomes the object of your nightmares.

It boils down to if you can scare the public enough they'll vote for anything. Do anything. The thing is, sometimes these votes turn into things that people will regret down the road.

This doesn't create utopian societies imo. Rather, it paves the way to dystopia sometime in the future that another generation will have to contend with. It's a very slow process, sort of like slowly boiling frogs in a frying pan to where once they realize they're being cooked, it's already too late.

That's when tyranny comfortably sets in and requires the power of Hell to get out of.

To be more direct people will always find something to harm people with whether it's chemical, biological, or who knows someday. Nuclear? Remember the nuclear Boy Scout or that guy who built a nuclear plant on his stove.

Frenzy fear, fear Frenzy.

I'm getting a little off track with your question but I agree people will find something else to kill people with.

It will always be like that so guns will be vilified today but you're right, something may be far worse in the future than guns as our technology and knowledge increases.

It's why I would much rather look at people and the causes which makes them go off the edge and do horrible things to one another, rather than being continually distracted by the tools that they use and vilify them to no end while totally ignoring the person and the reasons why they do what they do.

 

[BSM1]

Absolutely. Not just about guns, but about spiders, snakes, foreigners, and any number of overprevelent irrational fears which people often overcompensate for. Be that overcompensation killing any spider they see, walking on the other side of a road from that (insert object of racial or national or religious fears) or sleeping with a loaded gun in the dresser.

Incidentally, if my family and I had had a home invasion, we would be much more interested in making an escape than escalating. Especially since we kept our gun (used for putting down ailing livestock) disassembled and put away out of reach, as all responsible gun owners should.

Exactly what the invaders want to hear.

 

[Curious George]

Other than your certainties, what "investments" specifically are you proposing?

Education: Lower teacher child ratios, funding for teachers continued education credits and training concerning mental health, more school counselors and psychologists, reduction in the school to prison pipeline, funding for tutors and resource teachers as needed, expand head start and early head start programs and create a positive right to education and all that entails legally.

Mental health: provide more grants for non profits which provide mental health services to the community provide adequate grants for housing for people with mental health issues, make sure every American has coverage for mental health issues.
Poverty reduction: provide more grants to community action agencies which support food and nutrition programs, employment outreach, and housing assistance, provide statesome with funds to create more integrated low income housing, increase funds and grants to homeless shelters and safe parking programs, and I suppose there is a lot more but do you really want to listen to me drone on about the programs that we need to better fund?

 

[BSM1]

The time when NRA lobby and paranoid gun owners blocked stricter gun ownership laws is ending. The path is simple. Reducing gun crimes from legally owned guns to zero and making the state accountable for every life destroyed by a gun the state legally allowed the criminal to possess.

Blah, blah, blah...plenty of form, but not much substance.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So you advocate total disarmament if it will save even just one life from criminals. No legal guns for anybody is Ok with you if I read your comment correctly. It sounds like you feel citizens like myself should not be permitted to have guns if it at all increases chances for someone to be killed. This seems extreme to me, not taking into account that people like to own guns and that people do not feel safe. Fear is the number one reason people buy guns, and you want to take those guns away. How reasonable is that?

The automobile argument goes both ways. People drive day to day in opposite directions passing only a foot or two from each other which is a testament that the public can be trusted. So, yes people should not be afraid, but no that does not support seizing our guns either. Seizing the guns is what happens when the government pursues a course like the one you are describing.

People being afraid or liking guns isn't a good argument against gun control, fyi.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Exactly what the invaders want to hear.

WHAT "invaders"?

 

[Curious George]

Being homicidal isn't a mental illness.

I do not know that I said it was. I suggested that lack of education, mental illness, and low socioeconomic status were all likely higher correlated with murder/suicide rates than guns are.

 

[Curious George]

You can own a car at any age.

Thank you for not overlooking that post.

 

[BSM1]

WHAT "invaders"?

Home invading types.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Home invading types.

What "Home invading types."?

 

[Curious George]

What "Home invading types."?

I am guessing that you have not lived in areas with people who break into homes or hijack cars.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I do not know that I said it was. I suggested that lack of education, mental illness, and low socioeconomic status were all likely higher correlated with murder/suicide rates than guns are.

Poorer areas have higher crime like thefts and gang violence, sure. But I don't see what education and mental health have to do with killing people or not. Having a mental illness doesn't make you more likely to be a murderer or violent. (Talking about mental health makes sense in relation to suicides due to clinical depression, though.)

To me, this is just beating around the bush and refusing to deal with the issue of guns. With less guns, there will be less murders and less suicides. Duh.

 

[Curious George]

Poorer areas have higher crime like thefts and gang violence, sure. But I don't see what education and mental health have to do with killing people or not. Having a mental illness doesn't make you more likely to be a murderer or violent. (Talking about mental health makes sense in relation to suicides due to clinical depression, though.)

To me, this is just beating around the bush and refusing to deal with the issue of guns. With less guns, there will be less murders and less suicides. Duh.

Perhaps. I am inclined to believe that the murder suicide will drop slightly. I do not think it will drop as significantly as if we were to focus on the issues on which I am proposing we focus.

And what is more, I am suggesting overall crime will be reduced, production will increase, and standard of living will increase....whereas I see gun regulation or bans as mere band-aid fixes for what is really at issue. Instead of joining in a cause which we all should support, we are divided over an issue of guns.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Perhaps. I am inclined to believe that the murder suicide will drop slightly. I do not think it will drop as significantly as if we were to focus on the issues on which I am proposing we focus.

And what is more, I am suggesting overall crime will be reduced, production will increase, and standard of living will increase....whereas I see gun regulation or bans as mere band-aid fixes for what is really at issue. Instead of joining in a cause which we all should support, we are divided over an issue of guns.

We can do both, you know. It's not an either or thing. I'm all for facilitating access to quality education for all, equal access to healthcare for all and economic justice. I'm also all for gun control and even banning guns (with limited exceptions).

 

[BSM1]

What "Home invading types."?

I am guessing that you have not lived in areas with people who break into homes or hijack cars.

I have been in the home security business for over thirty years. I have seen the results of home invasions, break-ins, and attempts at both. It's not pretty or neat; it's very frightening. Usually there is no time to escape (there is hardly any warning) and the people that have no fear of breaking into your home (especially if you're there) have absolutely no fear of hurting you. Your best defense is a very visible and often advertised offense. If these kids think anything they do or say is going to change the criminal or mentally unstable mindset that is rampant in our society, then they are in for a rude awakening.

 

[Augustus]

What would the carzies turn to if deprived of guns?

Something way worse?

Trebuchets? Lightsabres? Photon torpedoes?

 

[74x12]

The time when NRA lobby and paranoid gun owners blocked stricter gun ownership laws is ending. The path is simple. Reducing gun crimes from legally owned guns to zero and making the state accountable for every life destroyed by a gun the state legally allowed the criminal to possess.

People are easily manipulated into giving up their rights and doing things that are not in their own best interests. And since when do we let children and adolescents tell us how to run the country? And if we were so naive and foolish as to let children tell us how to run this country then why is the MSM silent on all the children who do not think gun control is such a good idea?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I have been in the home security business for over thirty years. I have seen the results of home invasions, break-ins, and attempts at both. It's not pretty or neat; it's very frightening. Usually there is no time to escape (there is hardly any warning) and the people that have no fear of breaking into your home (especially if you're there) have absolutely no fear of hurting you. Your best defense is a very visible and often advertised offense. If these kids think anything they do or say is going to change the criminal or mentally unstable mindset that is rampant in our society, then they are in for a rude awakening.

See Nous' thread about how guns statistically don't make a home safer. It's already been gone through a myriad of times.