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These Students will change US gun landscape

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Except we are divided over guns. I am not saying that people who do not believe in limiting or banning guns shouldn't bother. I fully support their political activity. Yet, I stand against them on gun control. I will never support a ban, and I am reluctant to support and I generally do not support any federal gun regulation.
Actually, I think most people support gun control on some level. The "do nothing" or "give everyone a gun" types are in the minority. We finally have a mobilized youth pro-gun control movement, which we did not have before, and the conversation is being sustained instead of dying down again so it would appear we are approaching a tipping point. People are getting sick of it. You can stand in the way (I don't know why you would) but you will probably find yourself left behind.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
I had my very rude awakening from any illusion that it cant happen to me.

I cant believe people who talk psranoid fantasy. It is no fantasy, and if you live,
you will never ever get over it and be the same.

I have seen others who have had the same experience. I am sorry you had to go through this. If I ever have the opportunity to stop just one of these incidents, I will not hesitate.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Where is it helpful? When someone hops into your car with a knife or a gun. When someone comes into your house and tries to rape you. When someone opens fire at you. When the police aren't going to get there anytime soon and someone wants to do some grievous bodily harm to you, when the guy downstairs is beating his wife bloody. Either you can understand what it is like to live in a neighborhood where this stuff happens often or you cannot.

If the police are not going to be responsible, then do not take away someone's ability to choose how they defend themselves or others.
A gun wouldn't really help in any of those situations. You pull a gun on someone with a gun and they'll just blow you away before you can aim.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Actually, I think most people support gun control on some level. The "do nothing" or "give everyone a gun" types are in the minority. We finally have a mobilized youth pro-gun control movement, which we did not have before, and the conversation is being sustained instead of dying down again so it would appear we are approaching a tipping point. People are getting sick of it. You can stand in the way (I don't know why you would) but you will probably find yourself left behind.
I am not sure how I will be left behind. Either they will be stopped at pushing foreward federal gun regulation or they will succeed. Either way I am going to be there in the end.

Why would I stand in their way? Because I do not believe they have the right to tell others how they can or cannot defend themselves especially when that person is making a reasonable decision.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
A gun wouldn't really help in any of those situations. You pull a gun on someone with a gun and they'll just blow you away before you can aim.
Well I disagree, but spectating on- what would happen if- is not really helpful. Different facts create different scenarios. To blanket all of these situations with "it wouldn't help" is simply wrong. Let it suffice that we can imagine facts of a situation where it is helpful and where it is not helpful.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I am not sure how I will be left behind. Either they will be stopped at pushing foreward federal gun regulation or they will succeed. Either way I am going to be there in the end.

Why would I stand in their way? Because I do not believe they have the right to tell others how they can or cannot defend themselves especially when that person is making a reasonable decision.
You do realize that they wouldn't need guns to provide the illusion of safety if semi-autos and handguns were banned in the first place, which removes the very thing they're afraid of, right? But doing nothing to keep guns off the street just perpetuates the problem. There will just more people buying guns, shooting people with them or committing other crimes and more people buying guns out of fear and so on.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
A gun wouldn't really help in any of those situations. You pull a gun on someone with a gun and they'll just blow you away before you can aim.

You've watched too many gangster movies. Most of the criminals with guns are neither too smart nor too brave. If confronted there's a very good chance that you will get the drop on them.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I have seen others who have had the same experience. I am sorry you had to go through this. If I ever have the opportunity to stop just one of these incidents, I will not hesitate.
Aye, despite protestations to the contrary, armed self defense does happen, & it's generally successful. Although I do know one fellow who lost a gunfight, & barely survived to tell of it. Some might use his one example as proof that guns aren't useful. But were that cromulent, then he & other cops should be unarmed too.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Well I disagree, but spectating on- what would happen if- is not really helpful. Different facts create different scenarios. To blanket all of these situations with "it wouldn't help" is simply wrong. Let it suffice that we can imagine facts of a situation where it is helpful and where it is not helpful.
The data already shows that guns aren't helpful in those situations so you might as well stop using that tired argument.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
You do realize that they wouldn't need guns to provide the illusion of safety if semi-autos and handguns were banned in the first place, which removes the very thing they're afraid of, right? But doing nothing to keep guns off the street just perpetuates the problem. There will just more people buying guns, shooting people with them or committing other crimes and more people buying guns out of fear and so on.
I disagree. Those incidents I described were from incidents that happened to people close to me. I have known guns to help too many times.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
The data already shows that guns aren't helpful in those situations so you might as well stop using that tired argument.
The data shows that based on 300 million guns many have not needed them. And of the people that did need them and there was a police report, more people were harmed by them.

The statistics do not apply to individuals. You are talking about banning that does apply to individuals.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Mine's safer, thank you very much. In all fairness, I have advised many of my clients not to purchase a firearm for one simple reason--they weren't ready to take another human life even in protecting their own. As harsh as this sounds, if you hesitate, you die. And you may very well die. That's the world we live in and no amount of legislation is going to change it.

I understand that many soldiers, faced with an enemy clearly
intent on killing them, simply cannot overcome the natural
aversion to killing, and, die for it. Trained-to-kill soldiers. Cannot fire their
weapons.

I suppose most people would be unable to actually use
the gun, even in gravest extreme. So it would be worse than useless.

I seriously doubt I could. If it happened again, I think I would be so unhinged with
terror, I would be paralyzed, easiest prey ever.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
The data shows that based on 300 million guns many have not needed them. And of the people that did need them and there was a police report, more people were harmed by them.

The statistics do not apply to individuals. You are talking about banning that does apply to individuals.
I have no idea what you're trying to say at this point.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
I understand that many soldiers, faced with an enemy clearly
intent on killing them, simply cannot ovrrcome the natural
aversion to killing and, die for it. Trained-to-kill soldiers. Cannot fire their
weapons.

I suppose most people would be unable to actually use
the gun, even in gravest extreme. So it would be worse than useless.

I seriously doubt I could. If it happened again, I think I would be so unhinged with
terror, I would be paralyzed, easiest prey ever.

Then I would advise you not to purchase a fire arm. However think about this, either way you may become prey; at least with a weapon you may have a chance to fight back.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
And your anecdotes don't overrule my anecdotes of almost being killed by a gun. Nor does it overrule the statistics.
Nope it doesn't. I am not saying it does. I am only saying that I do not believe you or I have the right to take the gun away from the individual who does need it.

I can think of many situations where it would have been safer for me if there were no guns around. But that doesn't change my opinion.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I understand that many soldiers, faced with an enemy clearly
intent on killing them, simply cannot overcome the natural
aversion to killing, and, die for it. Trained-to-kill soldiers. Cannot fire their
weapons.

I suppose most people would be unable to actually use
the gun, even in gravest extreme. So it would be worse than useless.

I seriously doubt I could. If it happened again, I think I would be so unhinged with
terror, I would be paralyzed, easiest prey ever.
Pepper spray might be a good choice.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Nope it doesn't. I am not saying it does. I am only saying that I do not believe you or I have the right to take the gun away from the individual who does need it.

I can think of many situations where it would have been safer for me if there were no guns around. But that doesn't change my opinion.
I don't have the right to take anything from you. But I can vote for politicians who can pass gun control laws and for Presidents who can appoint judges that can make rulings that support gun control, too. I do not believe that anyone needs a gun aside from something like hunting and you certainly shouldn't be using a semi-auto, handgun or shotgun to do that. I do not support the paranoid siege mentality of Americans.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Pepper spray might be a good choice.

Just a note, make sure you have the spray nozzle pointed in the right direction. Tried to spray the neighbor's dog a few years back and had the canister turned around. Never heard a dog laugh before.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
I don't have the right to take anything from you. But I can vote for politicians who can pass gun control laws and for Presidents who can appoint judges that can make rulings that support gun control, too. I do not believe that anyone needs a gun aside from something like hunting and you certainly shouldn't be using a semi-auto, handgun or shotgun to do that.

What gun laws do you want to see passed?
 
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