Things as Information

[Fool]

Language is the device through which we communicate. People may choose to modify language to suite their agenda, all that means is you are moving goalposts.


I will quote




Do you not see a problem in writing something then saying a key word should be dropped after the fact?

you win


There are many solutions even more ridiculous than these. The situation arises from application of rigorous mathematical language to everyday usage, which is imprecise. The use of mathematical rigor in common communication would be maddeningly inconvenient. In everyday language, much is tacitly implied. The scientist lives between these extremes, and needs to check all definitions and Descriptions to be certain of his or her understanding.

 

[ChristineM]

you win


There are many solutions even more ridiculous than these. The situation arises from application of rigorous mathematical language to everyday usage, which is imprecise. The use of mathematical rigor in common communication would be maddeningly inconvenient. In everyday language, much is tacitly implied. The scientist lives between these extremes, and needs to check all definitions and Descriptions to be certain of his or her understanding.

Such is implied but not completely rubbed out.

 

[Sir Doom]

*spoiler alert*

Recently, HBO produced a show based on Michael Chriton's novel Westworld. They explore the idea of transplanting a person's mind into a robotic body. Obviously, capturing the human mind in it's entirety was a huge hurdle, but more so was the awareness of the construct. Once the former human realized they weren't human any longer they suffered a complete mental breakdown. In order to make it work they essentially cheated. An imperfect copy worked better because it didn't need to reconcile it's 'new' form.

 

[Fool]

*spoiler alert*

Recently, HBO produced a show based on Michael Chriton's novel Westworld. They explore the idea of transplanting a person's mind into a robotic body. Obviously, capturing the human mind in it's entirety was a huge hurdle, but more so was the awareness of the construct. Once the former human realized they weren't human any longer they suffered a complete mental breakdown. In order to make it work they essentially cheated. An imperfect copy worked better because it didn't need to reconcile it's 'new' form.

that is called a mind body disconnect

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/depersonalization-disorder-mental-health#1

 

[BilliardsBall]

If all the information about a thing could be captured; including both the experiential and composition, then could that thing be recreated. basically reverse engineered, or reverse engineering of a personality?


palingenesis?

Sure, if the soul can be copied. Even identical twins have differences, and no two animals or plants on Earth are precisely alike.

 

[sealchan]

If all the information about a thing could be captured; including both the experiential and composition, then could that thing be recreated. basically reverse engineered, or reverse engineering of a personality?


palingenesis?

The re-presentation of an object, even if it is "complete", doesn't constitute the re-creation of that object. Re-presentation or information is a compression of data from the original object and does not constitute the object itself which contains "un-compressed" data about itself.

 

[Fool]

The re-presentation of an object, even if it is "complete", doesn't constitute the re-creation of that object. Re-presentation or information is a compression of data from the original object and does not constitute the object itself which contains "un-compressed" data about itself.

reminds me of E = m(c*c).


energy is the potential of mass and mass is the potential of energy. where one is just the potential/actual of the other polarity

 

[Fool]

Sure, if the soul can be copied. Even identical twins have differences, and no two animals or plants on Earth are precisely alike.

you suppose that is because these two formations cannot occupy the same space and time?

 

[sealchan]

reminds me of E = m(c*c).


energy is the potential of mass and mass is the potential of energy. where one is just the potential/actual of the other polarity

I was thinking of information as a state of a separate physical system from that which is being "re-presented". This state of that system is not a copy of the part of the state of the Universe relating to that object and therefore represents a "compressed" version of that part of the Universe. The represented object in such a compressed system (represented partial Universe) does not interact with the real Universe in the same way as the object being represented.

I don't know if we can think the same way about mass and energy...when a mass looses mass and releases energy there is, perhaps, little or no information such that the new energy or the new mass could be related back to the original mass or original energy...the one item does not re-present the other.

 

[Fool]

I was thinking of information as a state of a separate physical system from that which is being "re-presented". This state of that system is not a copy of the part of the state of the Universe relating to that object and therefore represents a "compressed" version of that part of the Universe. The represented object in such a compressed system (represented partial Universe) does not interact with the real Universe in the same way as the object being represented.

I don't know if we can think the same way about mass and energy...when a mass looses mass and releases energy there is, perhaps, little or no information such that the new energy or the new mass could be related back to the original mass or original energy...the one item does not re-present the other.

but if the universe did go from a big bang high density to inflation; isn't that the same thing?

 

[sealchan]

but if the universe did go from a big bang high density to inflation; isn't that the same thing?

Why would it be? It seems the Universe is more like an egg hatching rather than a tape recorder recording.

 

[Fool]

Why would it be? It seems the Universe is more like an egg hatching rather than a tape recorder recording.

both mass and energy are physical systems. they are just different forms of the same thing vibrating at different frequency in space/time.

 

[blü 2]

If all the information about a thing could be captured

What's the difference between 'information' and 'data' in this context? I've never been able to tell them apart.

 

[Fool]

What's the difference between 'information' and 'data' in this context? I've never been able to tell them apart.

they can be the same in some instances, yes.

https://www.freethesaurus.com/data

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/data?s=t

 

[BilliardsBall]

you suppose that is because these two formations cannot occupy the same space and time?

I ascribe this instead to God's delight in original creations. Please tell me more about your thoughts here, so I understand.

 

[Fool]

I ascribe this instead to God's delight in original creations. Please tell me more about your thoughts here, so I understand.

because the observation from space/time distorts the experience and the view for each observant. move slightly and you might see something more/less than the other. the idea is beautifully told in a jain parable called the blind men and the elephant.

so yes, the forms are all unique having contrast but in fact there is greater/lesser mass/energy between the two in point of reference to that being observed; especially in relationship to the illusion of two selves.

 

[BilliardsBall]

because the observation from space/time distorts the experience and the view for each observant. move slightly and you might see something more/less than the other. the idea is beautifully told in a jain parable called the blind men and the elephant.

so yes, the forms are all unique having contrast but in fact there is greater/lesser mass/energy between the two in point of reference to that being observed; especially in relationship to the illusion of two selves.

Thank you. Are you saying two identical twins, two different people, are the illusion? Are you saying that one person who has a self and spirit is under an illusion? Not understanding what you've concluded here.

 

[Fool]

Thank you. Are you saying two identical twins, two different people, are the illusion? Are you saying that one person who has a self and spirit is under an illusion? Not understanding what you've concluded here.

i stating two things created from the same source can't have the same exact experiences because of the observation from different points of view in space/time, or third density. the mind itself has no contrast, it observes things outwardly as contrasting. if the observer becomes fixated on forms then obviously when the form collapses, the wave, then the observer believes life is form and not movement.

 

[BilliardsBall]

i stating two things created from the same source can't have the same exact experiences because of the observation from different points of view in space/time, or third density. the mind itself has no contrast, it observes things outwardly as contrasting. if the observer becomes fixated on forms then obviously when the form collapses, the wave, then the observer believes life is form and not movement.

Ah, I think I get it now.

That's one thing that makes me really wonder about God: apparently, He sees all things from all possible perspectives, always.

 

[Thief]

Ah, I think I get it now.

That's one thing that makes me really wonder about God: apparently, He sees all things from all possible perspectives, always.

Sodom and Gomorrah