This may be a dumb question but...

[Quagmire]

In the precursor to the Bible, the Gilgamesh epic, the tale was about the gods depriving humans of immortality, and the serpent was really trying to help humanity recover it. At one point, Gilgamesh does recover it but loses it again. Hence, we only have temporary lives. The Hebrew twists are interesting and ironic. We start out with immortality and lose it, thanks to the treacherous advice of the serpent. Ultimately, these tales were the "just-so stories" of ancients that tried to come to grips with the ultimate futility of personal survival.

Actually, the serpent is the bad guy in the Gilgamesh tale too: Gilgamesh Summary (very last paragraph).

Gilgamesh retrieves an herb from the bottom of the ocean that's supposed to impart immortality to it's user, but before Gilgamesh gets a chance to try it out, a serpent sneaks up on him while he's asleep and eats it.

 

[Skwim]

What parent hasn't asked their kid "did you make that mess?", knowing full well he/she did?

So, what is the reason a parent asks such a question?

 

[McBell]

So, what is the reason a parent asks such a question?

To give the child the chance to admit it.

 

[Skwim]

To give the child the chance to admit it.

Which accomplishes what? To determine if he's capable of lying or to see if he recognizes how dumb it would be to deny making the mess? Seems like game playing to me.

 

[not nom]

What parent hasn't asked their kid "did you make that mess?", knowing full well he/she did?

but it doesn't say they tried to hide, it says they hid.

oh, and it also seems as if god had a body back then? or at least something to walk with. ^^

8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

but hey, it gets stranger:

22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil

so the only thing that distincts us from god is our lifespan?? and who is this "us"?

 

[Reine]

but it doesn't say they tried to hide, it says they hid.

oh, and it also seems as if god had a body back then? or at least something to walk with. ^^

8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

but hey, it gets stranger:

22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil

so the only thing that distincts us from god is our lifespan?? and who is this "us"?

Hi Nom This can be confusing.. it is to me anyway. 'Us' can refer to God, Jesus and Sophia, who is God's wife in Gnostic writings. Also, the the population in the old Testament did were not always monotheistic.

 

[Reine]

I have little knowledge of the Bible so don't judge if it is dumb:

If God is all knowing, why did he ask Adam and Eve "Where art thou?" if he knew?

The whole creation story may not be literal, but represent concepts of the nature of God, the nature of man, the duality of good and evil within creation, the need to take actions to set things back on the right path, ...

 

[Copernicus]

Actually, the serpent is the bad guy in the Gilgamesh tale too: Gilgamesh Summary (very last paragraph).

Gilgamesh retrieves an herb from the bottom of the ocean that's supposed to impart immortality to it's user, but before Gilgamesh gets a chance to try it out, a serpent sneaks up on him while he's asleep and eats it.

Thanks for the link. I had not actually read that summary. I formed my opinion from other commentary and from reading passages from both the Sumerian (Bilgamesh) and Akkadian (Gilgamesh) versions of the story. The Semitic (Akkadian) version were far more elaborate than the Sumerian versions that they were based on. So it is quite possible that the Hebrew version had derived from a version in which the "snake" (serpent) was even more villainous than in the original. The Akkadian version, which represents the earliest historical evidence of a Semitic language, is considered the "classic" version of the tale. But it was not the earliest recorded version of the tale.

 

[SCHIZO]

Interestingly God told them that if they ate of the tree they would die, and the snake told them they would not die, but would live and gain Gods knowledge of Good and Evil.

So it turns out, the snake could be trusted, but God lied.

Also
" 24He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a sword flaming and turning to guard the way to the tree of life."

You will see the tree of Life is being guarded by a cherub and a flaming sword. I am still looking, but hope to find it using google earth

In Gnosticism the snake is the embodiment of wisdom. The snake did indeed lead Adam and Eve to knowledge that God had; and they in fact did not die for it. Their minds were opened and their eyes were able to see through wisdom. It is the snake that is revered in gnostic philosophy. In Christianity the snake is associated with the devil. But without the snake (wisdom) we would not have a holy spirit within us.

 

[SCHIZO]

Gog didn´t lie as far as I read it. (least not there) They did were going to die. And did die.

Adam and eve were mortal to begin with. They were not immortal beings on this earth otherwise there would be no need for the tree of life. They would have died whether they ate from the tree of knowledge between good and evil or not.

 

[SCHIZO]

Most people make that assumption, but there isn't anything in the Bible that makes the broad claim that God is "all-knowing", or "omniscient". There are a lot of verses that state things that God does all know, but never that he knows all things at all times.

There's actually several instances in which God is surprised by individuals and groups actions, which should make people question the omniscient assumption, but I guess they just ignore it or try to make it some convoluted theological rationale.

You're assuming that the bible is inerrant.

 

[SCHIZO]

In the precursor to the Bible, the Gilgamesh epic, the tale was about the gods depriving humans of immortality, and the serpent was really trying to help humanity recover it. At one point, Gilgamesh does recover it but loses it again. Hence, we only have temporary lives. The Hebrew twists are interesting and ironic. We start out with immortality and lose it, thanks to the treacherous advice of the serpent. Ultimately, these tales were the "just-so stories" of ancients that tried to come to grips with the ultimate futility of personal survival.

Every human being is born mortal. There is nothing that says, in the bible, that Adam and Eve were ever immortal. Not one place in the scripture says that Adam and Eve were immortal. What's the purpose of the tree of life if Adam and Eve are already immortal?

 

[SCHIZO]

What parent would not take precautions against the child making the mess in the first place, especially if the parent knew exactly what would happen if precautions were not taken?

That would be valid if you weren't dealing with a god of blood and sacrifice.

 

[SCHIZO]

And yet, messes happen. The fact that they do does not distinguish a good parent from a bad one.

Planting a forbidden tree is a deliberate act.

 

[Fester]

So, what is the reason a parent asks such a question?

To encourage the child to take responsibility for his/her actions.

 

[Fester]

but it doesn't say they tried to hide, it says they hid.

oh, and it also seems as if god had a body back then? or at least something to walk with. ^^

8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

but hey, it gets stranger:

22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil

so the only thing that distincts us from god is our lifespan?? and who is this "us"?

I'm no expert on this, but I'm of the impression that God could be seen until Adam and Eve were rebuked over that whole "fall" business.

Just a guess, but aren't there members of royalty through the ages who have referred to themselves, individually, as "we" and "us"?

 

[Fester]

Planting a forbidden tree is a deliberate act.

It was not the act of planting the tree that was the problem, but Adam and Eve's disobedience.

 

[not nom]

I'm no expert on this, but I'm of the impression that God could be seen until Adam and Eve were rebuked over that whole "fall" business.

and he strolled around in the garden? though personally, I think literal genesis reading is more for ***** and giggles, not so much insight. it's not really the point of the story, so yeah.

I still have lots of questions about the point of the story of course... such as, wouldn't it have been safer to not plant that tree there? it didn't say anything it about it being a test, as people are making up on their own.. it just says god didn't want them to eat from that AND the tree of life, so he told them not to. maybe he really thought that would suffice? anything else is just a guess, and I see those and raise it by "god is the represantion of some alien race which bred apes into what we are, and left us guidelines by which they will select their crop of slaves when they return" haha. makes just as much sense as the omnibenevolent god "testing us" and, well, disposing of most.

or it was just, you know, written by humans a looong time ago. after they transmitted it orally. but that's boring, I think it's the aliens < :slap:

Just a guess, but aren't there members of royalty through the ages who have referred to themselves, individually, as "we" and "us"?

yeah, but what do I know ^^ it's silly to nitpick about millenia old scripture, at least for me who knows to little. maybe that's god talking to the angels?

 

[not nom]

It was not the act of planting the tree that was the problem, but Adam and Eve's disobedience.

it wasn't the disobedience that was the problem, but god's reaction to it. see how that works? "the snake started it" - why not undo the damage done on adam and eve, instead of utterly smashing them?

and yes, why plant a tree there, which serves NO purpose to adam and eve? supposedly, god and his folk have eaten from it, or are as if they have eaten from it. for an undisclosed reason, it would be a problem to share that with mere humans. yet the tree of life WAS a tree adam and eve should have eaten of -- they were allowed everything, but the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil -- so what the f? why plant lots of edible or at worst decorative stuff, and then ONE tree that is not for them?

if you have a toddler, you cover up the electric sockets at floor level. you make sure. we were just created, ffs. god regrets having made humans in the first place later on, but never that. weak.

 

[Adso]

You're assuming that the bible is inerrant.

What are you talking about? How did you even come to that conclusion?