This thread is so gay

[*Anne*]

Did I mention that I like confrontation?

Is that a challenge?

*pokes Ymir repeatedly in the arm with her pointy finger, just to annoy him*

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Is that a challenge?

*pokes Ymir repeatedly in the arm with her pointy finger, just to annoy him*

poke me poke me, just not with a crochet hook

 

[Magic Man]

How on earth could you ever go about ensuring that it's not hurtful to anyone who hears it?

I can easily go about making sure it's not hurtful to anyone who hears it from me. I can't make sure it's not hurtful to anyone who hears it from elsewhere.

How is it irrelevant? Creating an environment where a person feels accepted is part and parcel of being accepting toward them.

Yes, it is.

But when the group you belong to is being used as an epithet, you're not being treated like anyone else.

Really? So, no one makes fun of white people or makes comments about being white equaling being bad?

And some of your best friends are gay, right?

What was that you were saying about crappy arguments?

Actually, I'd disagree with your claim that you haven't hurt anyone directly. Look back through the thread: we had one long-standing forum member leave RF altogether because of the attitude that you're expressing here.

First, Smoke is a very smart guy, but he is also a drama queen.

Second, I didn't hurt him with my use of the phrase.

They rather dramatically illustrate what I'm talking about. They're personal accounts from people who have been hurt by the phrase.

And what relevance does that have? None of them are from people I know, right?

How do you know? How would you know?

I mean, if one of your friends is in the closet and he's trying to decide whether to come out, do you think that you using the expression "that's so gay" would make him more or less likely to come out? Would he consider that to be part of a supportive environment?

My other comments and actions regarding the LGBT community would be enough to show him that it's perfectly fine for him to come out of the closet and he'll be accepted.

 

[Magic Man]

Let's look at what we know for sure so far...

• You admit it might be hurtful
• you have no idea how the announcer being told he is so gay should feel if he heard you saying it
• you defend your usage of the phrase, (sarcasm alert) by having a secret database of who you can and can't say it around, so as to ensure you NEVER say it out of place and hurt someone.

Silly me you're right, you make perfect sense...

This is getting tiresome. By all means, if you want to keep making yourself look sillier, keep commenting. It certainly doesn't help your case or hurt mine, so be my guest.

 

[KittensAngel]

There is actually a misunderstanding on your part, which has been pointed out since you posted. That's why I suggested reading the thread, or at least part of it. I urge you to do so to see where your misunderstanding is.

When that's what makes you feel better, do continue to believe it's true. :flirt:

 

[*Anne*]

poke me poke me, just not with a crochet hook

Okay! Only I think you'd prefer the crochet hook, which has a blunt end, to the knitting needle, which is like a little spear.

*pokes Mike repeatedly in the arm with her pointy finger*

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Okay! Only I think you'd prefer the crochet hook, which has a blunt end, to the knitting needle, which is like a little spear.

*pokes Mike repeatedly in the arm with her pointy finger*

OK, not feeling neglected now. Spank you very much...

 

[Magic Man]

When that's what makes you feel better, do continue to believe it's true. :flirt:

Yes, believing something a fact to be true usually does make me feel better.

 

[YmirGF]

Yes, believing something a fact to be true usually does make me feel better.

So, can we assume that you would never use the word around me? Or do you simply reserve it for the shrinking violets who are afraid to confront you?

 

[Magic Man]

So, can we assume that you would never use the word around me?

We probably can assume that, yes.

Or do you simply reserve it for the shrinking violets who are afraid to confront you?

I reserve it for people who aren't overly sensitive and who understand jokes and how certain phrases can be used in different ways.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

So it is safe to say Mball, that your view of linguistic excellence involves knowing the proper time and place to use a group of people as a dart board. Man this is just getting uglier and uglier...

 

[RitalinO.D.]

As a gay male, I am not amused when people use the word "gay" in a derogatory sense around me. That said, I am big enough and aggressive enough to make one think twice before they use the word around me again. Though I am somewhat tolerant of ignorant comments, I tend to bristle when the ignorance is underscored by repetition. Life does not go well for the perpetrator from that moment forward. Did I mention that I like confrontation?

So do you consider anyone using the term gay in the context that is being discussed here as offensive? Because I know when I use the phrase "That's pretty gay" I am not using it in the context that is meant to be offensive to anyone that happens to be gay. It's become a part of the English language as a slang expression, and I would imagine a large percent of people that use it use it in that context, not to be directly or even indirectly offensive to gay people.

This goes back to the whole issue of being overly sensitive to words. If I came up to you and called you a Fa**** to your face (which I would never do mind you, thats jacked up), you could reasonably conclude that I was meaning it in a directly bigoted and hurtful manner. And if you proceeded to punch me in the face, I would certainly be deserving of such treatment. However, if you were within earshot of someone saying "Man, this weather is pretty gay", it would seem fairly obvious and reasonable to conclude that the context of that statement is not directed at the gay community.

The problem is there will always be people that are too sensitive to the things people say, and I think it's silly to be offended by them. There's a huge difference between using a word in a hostile context, and using a word as a synonym to mean something else.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

How much time is left before MOD review takes place? Let's keep it civil folks

 

[Magic Man]

The problem is there will always be people that are too sensitive to the things people say, and I think it's silly to be offended by them. There's a huge difference between using a word in a hostile context, and using a word as a synonym to mean something else.

:yes:

 

[Just_me_Mike]

So do you consider anyone using the term gay in the context that is being discussed here as offensive? Because I know when I use the phrase "That's pretty gay" I am not using it in the context that is meant to be offensive to anyone that happens to be gay. It's become a part of the English language as a slang expression, and I would imagine a large percent of people that use it use it in that context, not to be directly or even indirectly offensive to gay people.

This goes back to the whole issue of being overly sensitive to words. If I came up to you and called you a Fa**** to your face (which I would never do mind you, thats jacked up), you could reasonably conclude that I was meaning it in a directly bigoted and hurtful manner. And if you proceeded to punch me in the face, I would certainly be deserving of such treatment. However, if you were within earshot of someone saying "Man, this weather is pretty gay", it would seem fairly obvious and reasonable to conclude that the context of that statement is not directed at the gay community.

The problem is there will always be people that are too sensitive to the things people say, and I think it's silly to be offended by them. There's a huge difference between using a word in a hostile context, and using a word as a synonym to mean something else.

You are correct here, but Mball uses the word in a context that gay means stupid, and other than that he has not explained why else he would use the phrase "that is so gay, or you're so gay". It is very clear in his context it is linked to the gay community. However, for him he says it is OK, so long as the people he is around don't mind the phrase.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I can easily go about making sure it's not hurtful to anyone who hears it from me. I can't make sure it's not hurtful to anyone who hears it from elsewhere.

And does your use of the phrase (and with it, your tacit endorsement that the phrase is acceptable for use) make it more or less likely that someone will hear it elsewhere?

BTW, I noticed that you skipped over part of my last post that addressed this point:

Second, using the expression in one setting tells everyone present that the expression is acceptable. Even if you somehow worked some magic to actually ensure that your use of the phrase isn't directly hurtful, by using it, you're effectively telling the people around you that it's okay for them to use it, too. You reinforce their use of the term, which reinforces the use of the term by people around then, and so on, and so on. I think it'd be unreasonable to argue that nobody in this web uses the term hurtfully.

Yes, it is.

Bingo! Now, step 2: does using the phrase "that's so gay" make the environment feel more or less accepting to gay people?

Really? So, no one makes fun of white people or makes comments about being white equaling being bad?

Depends on the circumstance.

For instance, my ex-girlfriend's family would use the phrase "that's a wee Irish" to mean "that's kinda crazy" (they were Scottish - from what I understand, it's a fairly common expression there)... despite the fact that half-Irish me is sitting on the couch right there. In that environment, nobody was using "Scottish" as an epithet, so yes, the Irish weren't being treated the same as everyone else there.

First, Smoke is a very smart guy, but he is also a drama queen.

Ah - so when you hurt him, it was his fault?

Second, I didn't hurt him with my use of the phrase.

You're splitting hairs. You hurt him with your argument that the phrase is acceptable, which is implied when you actually use it.

And what relevance does that have? None of them are from people I know, right?

It's a representative sample; the viewpoints there might be reflective of people you know. Or of people who your friends know, who you encourage to use the phrase by your own usage of it.

My other comments and actions regarding the LGBT community would be enough to show him that it's perfectly fine for him to come out of the closet and he'll be accepted.

Are you sure? Can you see how someone would consider this sort of language to be unaccepting?

 

[*Anne*]

So it is safe to say Mball, that your view of linguistic excellence involves knowing the proper time and place to use a group of people as a dart board.

I don't think he's doing that though. Not intentionally.

I understand the argument, and from an objective standpoint, I agree that society should probably start to phase this particular bit of slang out. If it offends gay people, then it makes sense to avoid it.

However, I want to underscore the fact that many people use it out of habit (you could say, "without thinking") and do NOT mean it as a slam against the gay community.

This is why I argue that we need not label these particular people as bigots. That's a strong term I reserve for those who truly hate and discriminate.

For the record, I hate "Soccer Mom," "Cougar," and "MILF". The first one is often said with a rather snide, I'm-better-than-you tone, and the second two reduce women to nothing more than a sex toy. I'd like to see all 3 terms disappear frankly. But I'm not going to assume the next guy who uses the term "cougar" is a sexist *******.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

You are correct here, but Mball uses the word in a context that gay means stupid, and other than that he has not explained why else he would use the phrase "that is so gay, or you're so gay". It is very clear in his context it is linked to the gay community. However, for him he says it is OK, so long as the people he is around don't mind the phrase.

So basically what you are saying is you think the gay community is stupid? Why would you conclude he is saying that? Unless I missed it in the thread, nowhere did I see him saying he implied the gay community was stupid. If I use it in that context, I am certainly not implying the gay community is stupid, nor would I get that from someone else saying it, unless I knew for a fact that person had issues with the gay community and intended that context.

There are several synonymous meanings I attach to the phrase "That's pretty gay" or That's so gay". It can mean, lame, stupid, dumb, shi**y, etc. None of those I associate with the gay community. Therefore there would be no need to assume offense, unless a member of that community is overly sensitive about it, and in that case it is their issue, not mine.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

So basically what you are saying is you think the gay community is stupid?

incorrect

There are several synonymous meanings I attach to the phrase "That's pretty gay" or That's so gay". It can mean, lame, stupid, dumb, shi**y, etc. None of those I associate with the gay community. Therefore there would be no need to assume offense, unless a member of that community is overly sensitive about it, and in that case it is their issue, not mine.

One must be truthful about how the concepts of lame, stupid, dumb became associated with the word gay. There are only a small number of options for that to have occurred. It certainly wasn't arbitrary.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

However, I want to underscore the fact that many people use it out of habit (you could say, "without thinking") and do NOT mean it as a slam against the gay community.

This is the point I'm trying to make here. It has been ingrained into the English language as a slang term, and people need to understand that. Don't just assume every person that uses it is being bigoted toward the gay community. It's quite different than the N-word where you can only derive one single meaning from it. Nobody says "Man, this weather is pretty N-word". That's not slang.

For the record, I hate "Soccer Mom," "Cougar," and "MILF". The first one is often said with a rather snide, I'm-better-than-you tone, and the second two reduce women to nothing more than a sex toy. I'd like to see all 3 terms disappear frankly. But I'm not going to assume the next guy who uses the term "cougar" is a sexist *******.

I never looked at the term Cougar to describe a woman as a sex toy. I just looked at it as a term to describe a woman that preferred younger men. I don't see any sexist connotation to it.