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those cartoons again

sandandfoam

sandandfoam

Veteran Member
The newspaper was right to reprint those cartoons. Freedom of speech even if you don't like it. The notion that any scribbling is deserving of murder is obscene.
I'm impressed that the editors of that paper have the courage to make this stand in support of their cartoonist.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Perhaps if people were offended more they would become offended far less. Muslims have to learn that any kind of condemnation of these minor images simply serve to underscore the validity of the message contained in the images. Personally, I loved the Bomb in the hat image as it said to me that Muslims have a very short fuse before them "go off".

Go a cute email the other day, Labelled "Outsourced"

1. I was depressed and had become suicidal
2. In a lucid moment I thought to call "Lifeline"
3. My call was rerouted to the answering service in Pakistan.
4. "You have reached Lifeline. How may we help you?"
5. I am depressed and suicidal.
(Suddenly I could hear all sorts of excited chatter in the back ground. The operator returned to the phone asking...)
6. "Can you drive a truck?"
 
Don Penguinoini

Don Penguinoini

Modi.
I think what they are doing is write. Muslims are too sensitive. If its such a problem they should not reveal their beautiful religion to the world...
 
Alpha

Alpha

Defender of my faith
what i find annoying is Buddha, Christ and other religious figure heads are depicted in cartoons, do Christians go up in arms about it? the answer no, we might be offended but don't go round burning flags like drugged up lunatics. (i know that seems a bit strong but it just annoys me soo much)
 
Zephyr

Zephyr

Moved on
Good. They should be reprinted everywhere, and perhaps some new ones made. See if we can make them even more offensive. We need to show that we aren't intimidated by lunatics.
 
sindbad5

sindbad5

Active Member
ok, Muslims are too sensitive - like the penguino guy said, besides of course his remarkable note about how beautiful my religion is, probably he was making a comparison to his one.

so, why provocating those Muslims over and over again? what's the point?
is it a good manner to do or say things that i'm pretty sure another person consider it as insult?

why not those who make such insults be on their own and make as much insults as they want to their sacred things - if any? why insulting others?

another thing, people talk too much about the freedom of speech, and how brave the editors who republish these cartoons, ok, what about the muslims right of expressing condemnations for that action? why some people prevent this right from muslims?

i know that nothing is above insult in the western culture. this's a westren value, why trying to impose this value on another culture?

but is't really nothing above insult or critisize on the west? what about holocust? can anybody form those brave editors deny or even discuss that issue?
 
McBell

McBell

Unbound
sindbad5 said:
another thing, people talk too much about the freedom of speech, and how brave the editors who republish these cartoons, ok, what about the muslims right of expressing condemnations for that action? why some people prevent this right from muslims?
Click to expand...
You seem to be implying that I should have the right to kill whom ever I think/believe/perceive has insulted me as well as anyone else who just happens to get in the way of my killing them.
 
Fluffy

Fluffy

A fool
I think what they are doing is right but I think every single comment in this thread that made a generalisation about Muslims is wrong.

Additionally, in response to Sinbad, everybody has a right to utilise their freedom of speech to condemn the actions of others. They simply don't have the right to expect anybody else to listen.

Similarly we all have a right to be responsible with our freedom of speech. However, I do not see printing these cartoons as irresponsible because anybody who finds them offensive can just ignore them. I think that the cartoonists are wrong in other respects (they are making negative generalisations which can and do lead to hatred and intolerance) but not with regards to offence, sensitivity and freedom of speech.
 
McBell

McBell

Unbound
Fluffy said:
I think that the cartoonists are wrong in other respects (they are making negative generalisations which can and do lead to hatred and intolerance) but not with regards to offence, sensitivity and freedom of speech.
Click to expand...
I tend to disagree with this part.
Especially after the riots showing that the cartoons are accurate.
But then, it also boils down to how you interpret the cartoons.

I thought the same as YmirGF:
" I loved the Bomb in the hat image as it said to me that Muslims have a very short fuse before them "go off".
​
And their reaction to it merely solidified that thought.
 
sindbad5

sindbad5

Active Member
Mestemia said:
You seem to be implying that I should have the right to kill whom ever I think/believe/perceive has insulted me as well as anyone else who just happens to get in the way of my killing them.
Click to expand...

HOW MANY TIMES a Muslim need to say Islam has nothing to do with those maniacs who kill and terrorizing others? huh?

could you please stop "implying" that 1.3 billion Muslims are terrorists by nature?

could you all please stop assuming a Muslim is accused until showing the opposite?
 
Quoth The Raven

Quoth The Raven

Half Arsed Muse
sindbad5 said:
another thing, people talk too much about the freedom of speech, and how brave the editors who republish these cartoons, ok, what about the muslims right of expressing condemnations for that action? why some people prevent this right from muslims?

i know that nothing is above insult in the western culture. this's a westren value, why trying to impose this value on another culture?
Click to expand...
You can express condemnation all you want. You have the right to be offended, you have the right to speak out. What you don't have the right to do is riot, destroy property, kill people who merely happen to be unfortunate enough to be in the vicinity when you go off your nut as a collective, and you certainly don't have the right to hatch a murder plot against some bloke who happened to draw a picture you didn't like. All that has been gained by that is that newspapers who previously didn't support the original publication of the cartoons are now publishing them in a show of solidarity.
No-one is trying to impose a western value on another culture...the cartoons were published in Denmark, not in a Muslim governed or even predominantly Muslim country. If you think that a 'western' newspaper shouldn't do something it would otherwise do just because there are some Muslims out there somewhere who will get upset about it and behave like violent cretins, then you're asking that your cultural values be imposed on and take precedence over their existing values. You can't complain that people are imposing their values on you while attemting to do the same to others.
 
Fluffy

Fluffy

A fool
Heya Mestemia,
My problem with generalisations is not their accuracy. I agree that generalisations can be very accurate in some cases.

My problem with generalisations is that I believe them to be immoral because they lead to division.

If a negative generalisation is true then the people who most need to be convinced of its truth are those who it is true of. However, by focusing on the generalisation, you don't give them anywhere to go except to plant their feet more firmly in the mud and attempt to justify their actions to themselves with even greater effort.

Furthermore, the people who need to be convinced of the truth of a negative generalisation the least are those who are intolerant towards or hate those of whom the generalisation is true. However, by stating the generalisation, these are the people who will most easily latch onto that generalisation and use it to further their intolerance and hatred. In attempting to tackle the truth of the negative generalisation, you are also inciting an entirely new one. What is the point of beating back Islam into the dark ages if Muslims become a down trodden minority who are hated by everyone else? It has happened before and could easily happen again.

Equal amounts of carrot and stick is the more effective and productive way of moving forward. Certainly don't let anybody get away with wrongdoing but let the focus be on helping them out of evil.

Just look at sinbad's responses. Do you think the generalisations are effective? Do you think it is helping to solve the problem? Or do you think it is turning away people who might be crucial for such an effort?

How can any Muslim stand here and condemn the actions of some Muslims when you wish to characterise this as the actions of all Muslims? You give them no place to go.
 
McBell

McBell

Unbound
sindbad5 said:
HOW MANY TIMES a Muslim need to say Islam has nothing to do with those maniacs who kill and terrorizing others? huh?

could you please stop "implying" that 1.3 billion Muslims are terrorists by nature?

could you all please stop assuming a Muslim is accused until showing the opposite?
Click to expand...
I was hoping that by making the first part of my reply bigger you would realize/understand that I was merely wanting you to clarify something so that I did not make an assumption.
But you are clearly showing that you are either not a true Muslim or the cartoons are more accurate than you claim.

And before the whine fest starts let me just say that I am calling it how I see it.
If you do not like the picture that you are painting, then you should change it.
 
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