Those who don't enjoin truth deserve hell forever.

[Ella S.]

If you want to reject God and call him evil out ignorance and desires to get out way with not coming towards his path, that's up to you. God's justice and mercy are both glorious though he doesn't want to put people in hell except he finds no way to cure them. And if he would manifest the truth beyond doubt, there would be no good and evil, and our worship would be almost meaningless.

Iblis ruined creation, but we can pass the final test of the Mahdi but I don't think humanity will. While there's time, it's good to discuss these things.

God opens doors to his mercy but good and evil are not same, and evil people deserve hell, but it's not just deserve, this life is a pressure cooker to bring about who we are, if we choose evil, there is no way to change that by God. In the day of judgment when truth is clear, it's impossible to love God out of will and while they know God is a certainty, they will have not love's vision to see his beauty.

I'm not sure how I'm rejecting God and calling him evil out of ignorance. What is it that you think I don't know?

 

[Kooky]

Only most evil people think hell is not real. Anyone with sense of justice believes in it.

The existence of eternal punishment eradicates all notions of justice.
What crime could be so terrible as to deserve an eternity of infinite suffering, next to the crime of a God who makes people suffer to an infinite degree?

 

[Kooky]

God's justice and mercy are both glorious though he doesn't want to put people in hell except he finds no way to cure them.

There is no mercy to a God who causes infinite suffering.

 

[Bird123]

Lets say there is a group of people who kill innocent people in the name of God.

Do you think they should still be pardoned from this so called "fiery pit for eternity"?

Think of it as a thought experiment.

We are all Spiritual beings in our true nature. We are Eternal. Death is no more than a change. As for people who kill, they create some very hard lessons for themselves.

A Higher Level does not fry the kids. A Higher Level Fixes the kids.!!!

Free choice is a Big Part of God's system. Our choices show God and the world what we know and what we need to learn. Each will choose their lessons for our actions and choices will return, in time, This is not punishment. This is Education at it's best.. When one understands all sides, Intelligence will make the Best choices. We are Living our Lessons!!

In a multilevel classroom, one will see others learning lessons one has already learned. Is this really a reason to Hate? If one chooses Hate, is this really the Best choice for all? What do you think will return? For those of us who watch others learning lessons we have already learned, it is just a reminder of what the best answers really are.

So often adversity, problems, and challenges point the direction to where the answers really are. We are meant to Learn, Grow, Discover the answers, and Solve the problems. Wisdom is acquired along the journey to Discovery.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Daniel Nicholson]

Put aside religion. Put aside recognizing God's guidance and his Messengers.

If people follow caprice and don't enjoin truth, chaos is easily done by leaders that fool people of caprice and desires.

They can constantly lead people to wars and havoc creating on earth.

Justice is not possible in this case. Laws that don't make sense can also be replacing laws that do.

What is the intention to avoid truth? It's an evil intention coming out of an evil identity.

So put aside Mohammad (s) and Ali (a) and chosen Ahlulbayts (households chosen by God) of the past to present, I believe too much evil happens if people don't enjoin truth.

I believe even if God didn't sent Messengers, the consequence of not enjoining truth should be hell forever.

Because you are not interested in siding with the good in this case, just following caprice.

Sorry if you have already said this, but can you explain "truth"?

 

[KWED]

Those who don't enjoin truth deserve hell forever.

Once again, a religious follower has to resort to threats!!
If you don't do X, then Y will happen to you.

Have you ever tried persuasion?

People generally believe in the truth of the faith they were born and raised in. They hardly ever "find truth" through the arguments of different religions.

 

[KWED]

The truth is irrelevant if I'm on it or not. I'm saying in theory, people who don't want the truth deserve hell forever. This is regardless if there is a true religion or not.

A child is kidnapped and slowly murdered in the most horrible way. The mother does not want to hear the truth and instead believes her child died quickly and painlessly, without fear.
You think she deserves hell forever.
Nice!

 

[KWED]

Lets say there is a group of people who kill innocent people in the name of God.
Think of it as a thought experiment.

Hardly a "thought experiment". It's been happening for millennia!

But you need to explain why there needs to be a hell at all? Why not just snuff out their existence? Why the need for violent and painful retribution? Civilised society has moved on from such things. Maybe it's time your god did as well?

 

[KWED]

There is no mercy to a God who causes infinite suffering.

The existence of eternal punishment eradicates all notions of justice.
What crime could be so terrible as to deserve an eternity of infinite suffering, next to the crime of a God who makes people suffer to an infinite degree?

You seem to have a problem with torturing people forever. You seem critical of the concept.
Where do you think people get the idea of infinite suffering in hell?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I believe even if God didn't sent Messengers, the consequence of not enjoining truth should be hell forever.

Do you have some personal vendetta against people who do not accept these "Messengers" that makes you feel this way? That literally sees you feeling that eternal torture is the best thing for them? I mean... pardon me for saying so... but that sounds really personal. I wouldn't wish what you're talking about on my worst enemy. Let's say someone killed someone I loved, as example. Sure, I might feel that seeing them lose something precious to them, in the way they made me lose such, might gratify some desire I have for seeing justice done - I might even think that their death would do the same for me. But would I wish them to be maintained in that torture FOREVER? No. Simply no. A temporary sentencing (like my own at the loss of a loved one) would be enough for me. Some form of torture/loss here on Earth, and then their ultimate death. Justice served. "Forever" is a concept I feel you're just not grasping if you think anyone deserves that something bad happen to them "forever."

Because you are not interested in siding with the good in this case, just following caprice.

So, even just being capricious and apt to changing your mind, if what your change of mind results in a net "bad" (by whose standards are we labeling a thing "bad" by the way?), should be grounds for eternal suffering? Seriously? So, if I had some money, and I could buy my wife a nice anniversary gift, bought some things, but then returned them, and changed my mind and, then changed my mind yet again (displaying caprice) and instead invested in stock with company that I thought would do well, so that I could make even more money and buy my wife something even nicer for our anniversary, but the company went bust and I lost all my money and then had to go and tell my wife that I couldn't afford to get her any gift at all (which probably both I, and my wife, would view as a net "bad" situation - as in "not good") you believe I should suffer in hell for all eternity for my being capricious, and changing my mind on what I might do that resulted in something that wasn't "good?" If that doesn't fit your criteria for this statement you have made, then you need to do a better job of explaining yourself, or describing your thoughts. In fact... all religious people could do with a big, healthy dose of "down-to-earthedness" - leaving all "nice" sounding rhetoric at the door and getting down to brass tacks.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Put aside religion. Put aside recognizing God's guidance and his Messengers.

If people follow caprice and don't enjoin truth, chaos is easily done by leaders that fool people of caprice and desires.

They can constantly lead people to wars and havoc creating on earth.

Justice is not possible in this case. Laws that don't make sense can also be replacing laws that do.

What is the intention to avoid truth? It's an evil intention coming out of an evil identity.

So put aside Mohammad (s) and Ali (a) and chosen Ahlulbayts (households chosen by God) of the past to present, I believe too much evil happens if people don't enjoin truth.

I believe even if God didn't sent Messengers, the consequence of not enjoining truth should be hell forever.

Because you are not interested in siding with the good in this case, just following caprice.

So Gandhi is in hell, but Ayotollah is in paradise?

 

[Muffled]

Put aside religion. Put aside recognizing God's guidance and his Messengers.

If people follow caprice and don't enjoin truth, chaos is easily done by leaders that fool people of caprice and desires.

They can constantly lead people to wars and havoc creating on earth.

Justice is not possible in this case. Laws that don't make sense can also be replacing laws that do.

What is the intention to avoid truth? It's an evil intention coming out of an evil identity.

So put aside Mohammad (s) and Ali (a) and chosen Ahlulbayts (households chosen by God) of the past to present, I believe too much evil happens if people don't enjoin truth.

I believe even if God didn't sent Messengers, the consequence of not enjoining truth should be hell forever.

Because you are not interested in siding with the good in this case, just following caprice.

I believe there is always a chance to repent up to the final judgment.

 

[Kooky]

Where do you think people get the idea of infinite suffering in hell?

The notion of eternal punishment significantly predates the Quran, and doesn't even originate from any of the Abrahamic faiths to begin with. It is a fairly logical development if we combine the idea of punishment in the afterlife with the idea of an eternal soul or other notions of eternity.

Tartarus - Wikipedia
Ammit - Wikipedia

Of course, you knew all that already, and this is just a reflexive way of engaging in another bad faith discussion.

 

[Muffled]

It could be that truth entails that there is no hell. Which would made your statement moot, and contradict your initial effort to not invoke religion. Or are you maybe arrogating yourself the right to declare what is truth by using things that have no more evidence than Apollo?

good luck.

ciao

- viole

John 18:37 Then Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world— to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.”

 

[Muffled]

No one deserves hell forever. Fortunately, that's a very unlikely scenario.

I believe some will go to Hell because they don't want to live in a world without sin and there is nowhere else they can go without defiling that world.

 

[KWED]

The notion of eternal punishment significantly predates the Quran.

Who mentioned the Quran?

But anyway, so you are claiming that Christians and Muslims get their idea of eternal punishment for rejecting the one true god from Greek mythology, not from the Bible or Quran? Interesting.

So just out of interest, what purpose do the Bible and Quran serve, in the context of the beliefs held by Christians and Muslims? None?

 

[viole]

John 18:37 Then Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world— to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.”

I repeat, no more evidence than Apollo?

Ciao

- viole

 

[PureX]

I believe some will go to Hell because they don't want to live in a world without sin and there is nowhere else they can go without defiling that world.

I suspect that death changes us all so profoundly that the concept of heaven or hell is no longer relevant.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The existence of eternal punishment eradicates all notions of justice.
What crime could be so terrible as to deserve an eternity of infinite suffering, next to the crime of a God who makes people suffer to an infinite degree?

Hi,
All sins are forgiven except for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I suspect that death changes us all so profoundly that the concept of heaven or hell is no longer relevant.

However, which concept of heaven and hell ________
I find the Bible's concept of hell is just the temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
'Sleep in death' as Jesus and the OT teach - John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5.
When the King James version translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire that put flames in biblical hell.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit where things were destroyed, so Gehenna is a fitting word for destruction.
The Bible's hell (grave) comes to final end according to Revelation 20:13-14.
Notice: after everyone is ' delivered up ' ( resurrected out of the grave/hell ) then emptied-out hell/grave is cast empty into that symbolic lake of fire which is defined as ' second death' for vacated biblical hell/grave.
So, in the Bible there is No suffering after death, and 'enemy death' will come to a final end - 1 Corinthians 15:26