Thought Experiment #1

[RedDragon94]

My choice wasn't based upon their animosity.
It just seems worth doing.
And I'd be guaranteed to not regret the decision.

Well no, are you committing the act out of regret though?

 

[Koldo]

The hypothetical relationship between you and the suffering in the world is that your actions cause other people to act evil so much so that it ripples across the entire planet. It may not get rid of all the suffering in the world, just a majority of it.

All of my actions ? Are they an irresistible force on others ( meaning I force their hands, and they can do nothing about it ) ?

 

[Revoltingest]

Well no, are you committing the act out of regret though?

Regret for what?
I did no wrong.
I'm just making a reasonable choice.

 

[Laika]

Short Thought experiment:
You wake up tomorrow morning to find out that you are the cause of all the suffering in the world, you have no control over the suffering in the world at the same time, and the whole planet wants revenge.

The question:
Do you continue to live or end it?

Voted "No". But I'd get them to execute/kill me in a manner of my choice and have a few days to myself to enjoy the life I've got left. It Preferably be painless and quick.

I'm going to die anyway. Its a matter of time. I'd just ask its on terms more to my liking.

 

[RedDragon94]

All of my actions ? Are they an irresistible force on others ( meaning I force their hands, and they can do nothing about it ) ?

Soft determinism/Causal determinism.
Determinism - By Branch / Doctrine - The Basics of Philosophy

 

[George-ananda]

Short Thought experiment:
You wake up tomorrow morning to find out that you are the cause of all the suffering in the world, you have no control over the suffering in the world at the same time, and the whole planet wants revenge.

The question:
Do you continue to live or end it?

I'd stick around curious to understand what a bad night I just had.

 

[allfoak]

In order for the scenario to be possible, I would basically have to be some sort of transcendent omnimax deity, for whom concepts like "life" and "death" don't really apply.

Your not!?
I'm finding another message board.

 

[Quintessence]

You don't think that human beings cause suffering? We are the most evolved species out there as far as mental capacity. We abuse that power. Animal species are going extinct in Africa because of humans.

Really it's just a way of asking how much guilt can you handle.

The biologist in me can't let the "most evolved" species comment slide - there is no such thing as one organism being "more evolved" than another.

Thanks for explaining where you were going with that question. I think the framing of it threw me, because it just seems super unrealistic for me, specifically, to be responsible for suffering to the point that the entire planet (really?) wants me dead? It's too much for me.

Personally, I wouldn't frame this as about suffering and guilt, per se. I'm well aware of the sixth mass extinction, but I'm cautious in using words like "suffering" in part because I don't think it's necessary to make emotional invocations like that. That humans are the primary driver of a sixth mass extinction event speaks for itself, and extinctions are neither bad nor good... they are things that happen. Where you go from there depends on personal values. Granted, yes, as someone who does happen to value the current suite of biological diversity, I'm not at all happy that the legacy of my own species is going to be a mass extinction event and a layer of plastic rubbish. Changing that is beyond my capabilities, as it should be considering the roads that it leads down.

 

[Koldo]

Soft determinism/Causal determinism.
Determinism - By Branch / Doctrine - The Basics of Philosophy

In that case I would also be responsible for all the good done in the world, wouldn't I ?

 

[RedDragon94]

In that case I would also be responsible for all the good done in the world, wouldn't I ?

Okay, how?

 

[RedDragon94]

In that case I would also be responsible for all the good done in the world, wouldn't I ?

Not necessarily from my point of view. You yourself may be a good person but it's just the affects of your actions cause people to react in a way that is evil or irresponsible.

 

[Ouroboros]

Short Thought experiment:
You wake up tomorrow morning to find out that you are the cause of all the suffering in the world, you have no control over the suffering in the world at the same time, and the whole planet wants revenge.

Did they all just wake up and realize that I was the cause of all suffering as well?

And how could I have been the cause without me knowing it?

Strange. Anyway.

The question:
Do you continue to live or end it?

Since I had the power to cause all suffering (suggests a very influential position), I say I'd continue to live but then start to change it and remove all the suffering I had caused. But that's based on the kind of person I am. I want people to be happy. Now, the problem here is that if I was the cause of all suffering and I didn't know or cared before I knew, that would suggest that my mindset and attitude used to be different before I woke up. So something happened with me waking up. What was it? What caused the change in both knowledge and attitude?

 

[RedDragon94]

Did they all just wake up and realize that I was the cause of all suffering as well?

And how could I have been the cause without me knowing it?

Strange. Anyway.

***Hypothetical situations***

They found out that you were the cause of the suffering through a government-funded sociology study at a university.

We don't always know what kind of influence we have over people.

Since I had the power to cause all suffering (suggests a very influential position), I say I'd continue to live but then start to change it and remove all the suffering I had caused. But that's based on the kind of person I am. I want people to be happy. Now, the problem here is that if I was the cause of all suffering and I didn't know or cared before I knew, that would suggest that my mindset and attitude used to be different before I woke up. So something happened with me waking up. What was it? What caused the change in both knowledge and attitude?

They played the results of the study on every national news station across the world.

Yes, the happiness of the majority is what is important. Remember the conditions of this experiment.

I don't see how you an reverse the affects of your actions when you have no control over how your actions are perceived.

 

[Parchment]

The biologist in me can't let the "most evolved" species comment slide - there is no such thing as one organism being "more evolved" than another.

When I lived in St. Louis they just smashed them in the street and on the basketball courts and supposed children's playgrounds, the broken shards glittering in the July sun like snowflakes in the middle of the coldest winter.

 

[Ouroboros]

***Hypothetical situations***

They found out that you were the cause of the suffering through a government-funded sociology study at a university.

We don't always know what kind of influence we have over people.

Interesting. I doubt, however, that all people would trust such a study. But that's okay. Let's go with that.

They played the results of the study on every national news station across the world.

And I saw the news too in the morning, I guess, and that's how I found out as well. Bummer. Ouch. I would try to hide, quickly.

Yes, the happiness of the majority is what is important. Remember the conditions of this experiment.

I don't see how you an reverse the affects of your actions when you have no control over how your actions are perceived.

But a lot of the suffering is wars, death, sickness, violence etc by other forces and people, and somehow I'm the one who has caused it all, which means that I have a huge influence and power over both people and physical/biological events. Hence, I should be able to revert it.

Also, since I was unaware of this huge influence, I doubt that it would go away just because I died. Even more, I suspect that someone else would become the new unintentional agent of suffering in the world, so the risk here is that potentially my death wouldn't solve it. It would only hide and extend it further with someone else. It would be better to stay and fix it.

Unless you're saying that whatever I do, somehow anything I say or do will always, unconditionally, cause harm and suffering?

 

[RedDragon94]

Unless you're saying that whatever I do, somehow anything I say or do will always, unconditionally, cause harm and suffering?

That's precisely what I'm saying. I guess you have the option of not believing it.

 

[Koldo]

Not necessarily from my point of view. You yourself may be a good person but it's just the affects of your actions cause people to react in a way that is evil or irresponsible.

If my actions influence everyone else's, how can I not be responsible for the good that comes out of it as well ?

 

[Ouroboros]

That's precisely what I'm saying. I guess you have the option of not believing it.

Ok.

Well, that would suggest that also my death would cause even more suffering. Whatever I do causes suffering, so even my death would. Living or dying wouldn't be anything that would change the world. So I guess I'd take my chances and hide (which also would cause tremendous suffering, but I don't care, since it doesn't help whatever I do).

 

[Shad]

Sorry but this question is ambiguous for a number of complex concepts regarding nature, humanity, evil and free will. I will need clarification

1. Is suffering caused by my conscious actions, unconscious actions, or by my very nature?
1a. If by conscious actions do my acts of good like charity or helping people result in evil acts by others?
1b. Do my acts violate the free will of others? Simply put they are incapable of of doing other than what my influence upon them.
2. Define all suffering. In my view this would include suffering from natural causes. Suffering in the form of pain caused by injury in a hurricane, animal attacks, tripping on something, etc. Suffering as in mental anguish like death of family, social abuses like bullying, etc.
2a. If you include natural causes as per 2 do my actions (regardless of 1's answer) result in the formation of events which cause suffering. As per my hurricane example. Did I cause the hurricane to exist which injured someone?
3. If I cause all suffering does my lack of existence render evil impossible?
3.a If yes, does freedom of choice and free will still exist?
3. a If yes does my lack of existence render the natural events of 2a non-existent? Do I make hurricanes impossible?

Simply put I see some radical implications under this argument which have a wide scopes. Ending my life could render human's automatons, to changing every natural law of the universe to even causing the universe to cease to exist. Some species may longer exist to all species may notlonger exist. An alternative is that any species capable of being an agent of suffering may no longer exist. It may not just end suffering but a great many things This in turn sparks questions that is my existence for a purpose? After all I am no normal human in your scenario. If I no longer exist thus the universe no longer exists was there a purpose of my existence itself? Namely am I God's universal reset button? If this is not my purpose but is in fact to remove all suffering from the world than I am not only capable of ending it as a possibility but as a reality. Does this not suggest I may have a power God does not? It could also suggest I made an act that God can not or refuses to do thus undermines God's power and claims to benevolence. This is not a set of arguments nor questions but merely extrapolations due complex issues that are left ambiguous in the question and my questions.

 

[RedDragon94]

If my actions influence everyone else's, how can I not be responsible for the good that comes out of it as well ?

Good does not come out of evil. If ever.