Thoughts on the Fall of Adam

[Subduction Zone]

@SZ- Looking over some of your comments, I see again you said you meant a "figurative" apple, as if you know why it wasn't a figurative pear.

It appears that English is not your first language since you have some trouble understanding cultural references.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You willfully did not understand the expression "in Ben Franklin's day." But now I am beginning to see the deliberate denying of reality and logic with you guys.

I think it is quite clear that you can't afford to let yourself understand the Bible in this matter.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You're the one who is telling me that Adam and Eve came from some other form of animal life. So logically you believe the evolution of mankind moved on to what is seemingly its present form. I see you guys will say anything to deny your own story. Lol. It's fantastic. And instructive.

No, I keep explaining to you that they are a myth. They never existed. They Garden of Eden story is a fairy tale.

 

[YoursTrue]

No I am not. That is not how evolution works. You said that. In fact I told you quite a few times there never were only two people.

Do you know how new languages arise? Latin speaking people in Spain did not wake up some day speaking Spanish. The change was very gradual with each generation speaking the same language. There was no clear cut line where you could say this generation spoke Latin and the next Spanish.

No I am not. That is not how evolution works. You said that. In fact I told you quite a few times there never were only two people.

Do you know how new languages arise? Latin speaking people in Spain did not wake up some day speaking Spanish. The change was very gradual with each generation speaking the same language. There was no clear cut line where you could say this generation spoke Latin and the next Spanish.

You said there were never only two people. Yet you have no answer as to which animal they evolved from. As if someone had sexual relations finally resulting in humans.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No matter how you want to twist an expression, how again did it just so happen that a human male and female came about with opportunity to reproduce and stopped reproducing with other type animals? You are making evolution sound more and more ridiculous. You've clinched it for me. You can't explain it factually and neither can anyone else. Because it didn't happen. It's a fantasy. But thanks for the explanation, much appreciated.

No, as others have pointed out you keep twisting how evolution happened.

It would help if you realized that you are an animal. I asked you two questions. Is your body made up of less than two cells? Do you make your own food from sunlight or simple chemicals such as methane? If the answers to both of those questions is no then you are an animal.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You said there were never only two people. Yet you have no answer as to which animal they evolved from. As if someone had sexual relations finally resulting in humans.

People are animals. If you ever had sexual relations you had it with an animal.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, I keep explaining to you that they are a myth. They never existed. They Garden of Eden story is a fairy tale.

From your explanations, the idea of the first two or one (?) humans coming about from another animal type thing is more than incredible. It's called impossible.

 

[Subduction Zone]

From your explanations, the idea of the first two or one (?) humans coming about from another animal type thing is more than incredible. It's called impossible.

but that is your strawman.

Once again. There never were only two people.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, as others have pointed out you keep twisting how evolution happened.

It would help if you realized that you are an animal. I asked you two questions. Is your body made up of less than two cells? Do you make your own food from sunlight or simple chemicals such as methane? If the answers to both of those questions is no then you are an animal.

However, which was the other animal humans emerged, evolved from? All of them?

 

[Subduction Zone]

However, which was the other animal humans emerged, evolved from? All of them?

We share a common ancestor with other apes.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, I keep explaining to you that they are a myth. They never existed. They Garden of Eden story is a fairy tale.

OK, carrying on from there, you believe humans evolved from the ape category, is that right?

 

[YoursTrue]

but that is your strawman.

Once again. There never were only two people.

I hope you will answer my previous question,. SZ. But since you say there were never only two people, maybe there were more or less that evolved from apes, I suppose when humans as the human race is known as today evolved from the apes, the apes stopped evolving, because the ape-apes (not humans that act like apes) are still being born to apes and stay apes.

 

[Subduction Zone]

OK, carrying on from there, you believe humans evolved from the ape category, is that right?

That is poorly stated. People share a common ancestor with apes and are still apes. You are an ape. I am an ape. It is a mistake to think that we ever quit being apes. Most creationists have no problem admitting that we are vertebrates. A much bigger group. Do you have a backbone? I have one. Both you and I are vertebrates. You probably will admit to being a tetrapod too, that means you have four limbs. That is a smaller group. Hopefully you admit to being a mammal. If you breast fed your children you are a mammal. But for some odd reason creationists draw the line at being apes, even though the creationist the first set up a classification for life in biology realized that we are apes.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I hope you will answer my previous question,. SZ. But since you say there were never only two people, maybe there were more or less that evolved from apes, I suppose when humans as the human race is known as today evolved from the apes, the apes stopped evolving, because the ape-apes (not humans that act like apes) are still being born to apes and stay apes.

Again, this is a misunderstanding. Evolution has not stopped. And we never stopped being apes. You are still an ape. All of your descendants will be apes too. But don't worry. All of your descendants will be humans as well. And the descendants of chimps will always be chimps.

 

[YoursTrue]

No I am not. That is not how evolution works. You said that. In fact I told you quite a few times there never were only two people.

Do you know how new languages arise? Latin speaking people in Spain did not wake up some day speaking Spanish. The change was very gradual with each generation speaking the same language. There was no clear cut line where you could say this generation spoke Latin and the next Spanish.

That is basically true. But that is language. Not biologic evolution from apes to humans. Similar to music, or the wheel. Humans made chagng

Nope. Still spinning.

No I am not. That is not how evolution works. You said that. In fact I told you quite a few times there never were only two people.

Do you know how new languages arise? Latin speaking people in Spain did not wake up some day speaking Spanish. The change was very gradual with each generation speaking the same language. There was no clear cut line where you could say this generation spoke Latin and the next Spanish.

While the history of language development and changes is truly fascinating, it is not a parallel with biologic evolution. Shakespearean English would hardly be understood by English speaking populations today,but again -- despite changes in words and pronunciation, it is not biologic evolution of the kind that supposedly makes apes into humans. Furthermore, apes and humans still cannot have sexual relations and produce hybrid type offspring today. There must be a gap somewhere that -- has not been discovered? The missing gap of the in-between ape-men might be extinct??? See, I even gave you an out. When I was in school and college, I accepted evolution in its full force. I no longer do. And so far nothing an evolution-believer on these boards demonstrates that evolution is a fact and makes more sense than creation. It doesn't.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That is basically true. But that is language. Not biologic evolution from apes to humans. Similar to music, or the wheel. Humans made chagng

Humans are still apes.

While the history of language development and changes is truly fascinating, it is not a parallel with biologic evolution. Shakespearean English would hardly be understood by English speaking populations today,but again -- despite changes in words and pronunciation, it is not biologic evolution of the kind that supposedly makes apes into humans. Furthermore, apes and humans still cannot have sexual relations and produce hybrid type offspring today. There must be a gap somewhere that -- has not been discovered? The missing gap of the in-between ape-men might be extinct??? See, I even gave you an out. When I was in school and college, I accepted evolution in its full force. I no longer do. And so far nothing an evolution-believer on these boards demonstrates that evolution is a fact and makes more sense than creation. It doesn't.

This makes little to no sense. Speciation is an event that is observable. When speciation occurs to separate groups will not longer interbreed. The split between man and our closest relative occurred about 7 million years ago. We can no longer breed with chimps even if we try.

If a species of animals is split into two separate populations they will start to evolve in different directions due to a different environment. If one occasionally takes samples from the populations and see if they will breed at first they will be able to interbreed and a hybrid may even be able to do well in both environments. But as time goes on they would begin to lose the ability to interbreed. At first there would be a decrease in fertility of their young. That would increase until even if the interbred their young would be sterile. We can see that with horses and donkeys breeding to make mules, which are almost always sterile. At that point they are two different species. Given more time they would not even be able to produce sterile hybrids. Right now that is where man is with other apes.

 

[YoursTrue]

That is poorly stated. People share a common ancestor with apes and are still apes. You are an ape. I am an ape. It is a mistake to think that we ever quit being apes. Most creationists have no problem admitting that we are vertebrates. A much bigger group. Do you have a backbone? I have one. Both you and I are vertebrates. You probably will admit to being a tetrapod too, that means you have four limbs. That is a smaller group. Hopefully you admit to being a mammal. If you breast fed your children you are a mammal. But for some odd reason creationists draw the line at being apes, even though the creationist the first set up a classification for life in biology realized that we are apes.

Vertebrates and

Humans are still apes.



This makes little to no sense. Speciation is an event that is observable. When speciation occurs to separate groups will not longer interbreed. The split between man and our closest relative occurred about 7 million years ago. We can no longer breed with chimps even if we try.

If a species of animals is split into two separate populations they will start to evolve in different directions due to a different environment. If one occasionally takes samples from the populations and see if they will breed at first they will be able to interbreed and a hybrid may even be able to do well in both environments. But as time goes on they would begin to lose the ability to interbreed. At first there would be a decrease in fertility of their young. That would increase until even if the interbred their young would be sterile. We can see that with horses and donkeys breeding to make mules, which are almost always sterile. At that point they are two different species. Given more time they would not even be able to produce sterile hybrids. Right now that is where man is with other apes.

Each kind is unique. Apes remain apes,and humans remain humans. So far none of us has seen apes or humans evolve. Now how many years do you think humans are in existence yet have not evolved? How about apes, still being born as apes?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Vertebrates and

Each kind is unique. Apes remain apes,and humans remain humans. So far none of us has seen apes or humans evolve. Now how many years do you think humans are in existence yet have not evolved? How about apes, still being born as apes?

Why do you think that humans are not apes? What biological differences are there? Not being able to breed with other apes does not cut it. Chimpanzees cannot breed with gorillas or orangutans, nor us either.

And yes, we see humans evolve. You don't know where to look.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If you watch this video from the 7:20 mark for about five minutes you can see a well presented human evolution from what a creationist would call an "ape" to us:

 

[YoursTrue]

Humans are still apes.



This makes little to no sense. Speciation is an event that is observable. When speciation occurs to separate groups will not longer interbreed. The split between man and our closest relative occurred about 7 million years ago. We can no longer breed with chimps even if we try.

If a species of animals is split into two separate populations they will start to evolve in different directions due to a different environment. If one occasionally takes samples from the populations and see if they will breed at first they will be able to interbreed and a hybrid may even be able to do well in both environments. But as time goes on they would begin to lose the ability to interbreed. At first there would be a decrease in fertility of their young. That would increase until even if the interbred their young would be sterile. We can see that with horses and donkeys breeding to make mules, which are almost always sterile. At that point they are two different species. Given more time they would not even be able to produce sterile hybrids. Right now that is where man is with other apes.

It appears that English is not your first language since you have some trouble understanding cultural references.

Well, as I was doing some reading, the Bible shows that the fruit and tree were literal, but they symbolized something.