Thousands of churches are closing across the U.S.

[Kenny]

How so very Christian of you to doubt, downplay and deny the happenings, events and experiences of others.
If y'all started listening more--especially to us apostates--your numbers probably wouldn't be dropping like panties in a whorehouse.

I'm not sure how I am downplaying anything. Your experience was horrible and wrong. I think I have as much said so.

I'm trying to listen but it seems to be a one way street?

 

[Quintessence]

This is actually very bad news for us all. As our churches have long been the heart and soul of our local communities.

Regardless of how you feel about religion, churches have been our community centers, recording births and deaths and marriages and reminding us on a weekly bases that we are a united community of human beings that share in each other's good fortune and suffer each other's heartbreaks. Everyone knew each other and had to look each other in the eye each week at church. And there would be a cost to those that behaved selfishly toward others as everyone else would know.

But that's mostly all gone, now. We're just a bunch of isolated, selfish, individuals looking out for #1. With no sense of community or responsibility toward God or anyone else. "One nation under God?" Not hardly. Now we're just one nation under the yoke of our mutual greed, fear, and selfish stupidity.

As a member of an unchurched religion, I feel this. While I wouldn't frame it in the manner you did here, the fact is that religious infrastructure serves a very important role in a community. There are other ways to cultivate community, but particularly for a religion like my own that is very place-based, not having physical infrastructure for your religion is a detriment.

Humans, I tell you. When they are blessed, they usually fail to count their blessings and appreciate the value of the things that they have. Until they are gone. Then, only once it is dead and gone, do they realize how important these things were.

Then they rebuild it again, anew.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Actually, I see it different. Remember when you said "imposing on how other people live?" I think that qualifies.

In actuality, those in power denied science while imposing the measure. They denied that it is the elderly and those with compromised constitutions that were at risk. It also denied that facial covers were not enough... as long as you were covered they were at peace when the covering was useless. Every time I get in the car, it is a risk. It denied the freedom of healthy people to go to a restaurant understanding the risk (albeit a minimal risk if you are young and healthy).

Fear is a great seller.

It was controlling and manipulative while suicide increase, mental problems increased, drug addictions increase, education decreased, et al.

Several million people have died worldwide due to the pandemic, and many others are still living with side effects. Masks weren't useless, but they definitely weren't foolproof either. The main problem with attending large gatherings was that anyone who caught the virus could then spread it to others who did their best to avoid it and followed all preventive measures.

Many people who didn't follow preventive measures also ended up needing hospitalization and overstressed the medical infrastructure as a result, affecting other people who needed care for all sorts of health issues. Being young and healthy also wasn't (and still isn't) a guarantee of immunity to death, severe illness, or long-term side effects.

Nothing about minimizing loss of life and disease is "manipulative." It was more control than many of us were used to during better times, but the control was more than necessary. It saved lives.

With all of that said, I'll refrain from commenting further on this specific issue, since discussions about the pandemic belong in a separate forum section altogether. I have touched on this aspect just enough to make my argument that many churches operated in a harmful manner during the pandemic.

 

[Kenny]

Several million people have died worldwide due to the pandemic, and many others are still living with side effects. Masks weren't useless, but they definitely weren't foolproof either. The main problem with attending large gatherings was that anyone who caught the virus could then spread it to others who did their best to avoid it and followed all preventive meaaures.

Many people who didn't follow preventive measures also ended up needing hospitalization and overstressed the medical infrastructure as a result, affecting other people who needed care for all sorts of health issues. Being young and healthy also wasn't (and still isn't) a guarantee of immunity to death, severe illness, or long-term side effects.

Nothing about minimizing loss of life and disease is "manipulative." It was more control than many of us were used to during better times, but the control was more than necessary. It saved lives.

With all of that said, I'll refrain from commenting further on this specific issue, since discussions about the pandemic belong in a separate forum section altogether. I have touched on this aspect just enough to make my argument that many churches operated in a harmful manner during the pandemic.

I agree with the end. (though have issues in between)

But thank you for your friendly discourse.

 

[Heyo]

Then that was my fault. Sorry. When you said "he", I thought you meant God. Since you meant the Baptist pastor, I agree.

As a side thought, when I was searching, a Baptist pastor was sharing with me and he said something that made me scratch "Baptist" off the list as I thought, "This guy doesn't know who God is".

But, "why"? God is "omnipotent" and can "omnipotently" forgive through the sacrifice of Jesus. If the list that you gave is what he called "unforgivable" - it can't be found in the Bible.

So, no, I am 100% sure that what he said was religious and you aren't "on the list" of unforgivable.

Matthew 12:31-32

“Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come." Source: 8 Bible verses about Unforgivable Sin

And I agree, whoever says bad things against the most holy spirit that is the pure malt will not be forgiven.
(Is that enough blasphemy?)

 

[Rival]

Matthew 12:31-32

“Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come." Source: 8 Bible verses about Unforgivable Sin

And I agree, whoever says bad things against the most holy spirit that is the pure malt will not be forgiven.
(Is that enough blasphemy?)

The nature of the sin is attributing to the devil what is from the Holy Ghost, which is what some of the Pharisees were saying about Jesus.

 

[Kenny]

Matthew 12:31-32

“Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come." Source: 8 Bible verses about Unforgivable Sin

And I agree, whoever says bad things against the most holy spirit that is the pure malt will not be forgiven.
(Is that enough blasphemy?)

Apparently not.

Just "what" do you have to say that qualifies speaking against the Holy Spirit?

One of the versus your site give is::

Mark 3:22The scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, “He is possessed by Beelzebul,” and “He casts out the demons by the ruler of the demons.”

Yet, these very same people gave their lives to God in Acts 2 and beyond...

So... nice try but no cigar.

You will have to be more specific. I think the "malt" has gone to your head.

 

[metis]

Covid did not just affect the elderly and less healthy, and even if it was only just them, don't we have a moral responsibility to try and protect them?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There are no villages or community pubs, or local churches.

Then why do those things exist here? Even Indiana has them.
Seems more like you just want to hyperfocus on the bad and blind yourself to the good. That's what I get from most of your posts.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Covid did not just affect the elderly and less healthy, and even if it was only just them, don't we have a moral responsibility to try and protect them?

My best friend, her 8-year-old boy has a cardiologist he sees at his very young age due to covid related misc-c. He was very healthy, very active, and outgoing in his way (he is autistic). Now he's very sick and though improving he still has to take it easy.
The idea it doesn't effect the young and healthy should be criminal.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Then that was my fault. Sorry. When you said "he", I thought you meant God. Since you meant the Baptist pastor, I agree.

I do mean Jesus/the Christian God.

But, "why"? God is "omnipotent" and can "omnipotently" forgive through the sacrifice of Jesus. If the list that you gave is what he called "unforgivable" - it can't be found in the Bible.

Jesus clearly says one sin cannot be forgiven.
And I'm definitely on the Christian God's kill list. That too is clearly written in the Bible.

 

[Kenny]

I do mean Jesus/the Christian God.

Then I would disagree respectfully

Jesus clearly says one sin cannot be forgiven.
And I'm definitely on the Christian God's kill list. That too is clearly written in the Bible.

1) yes
2) no. you would have to convince me on that one and you haven't at this point.

At least within my signature, I would say you are still in His "love" section.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

2) no. you would have to convince me on that one and you haven't at this point.

Apostate/worship other gods; rebellious teen; and depending on how people approach the whole sex and gender thing then that too may be another thing, but definitely if I'm ever married I'm not a virgin so that's another death sentence.

 

[Kenny]

Apostate/worship other gods; rebellious teen; and depending on how people approach the whole sex and gender thing then that too may be another thing, but definitely if I'm ever married I'm not a virgin so that's another death sentence.

This woman wasn't a virgin and she was saved.

John 4:16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. 17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: 18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.

This woman wasn't a virgin and she was saved:

Luke 7:40 And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on. 41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. 42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? 43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. 44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. 45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet. 46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. 47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

This woman wasn't a virgin and she was saved:

Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to MaryMagdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

So... no, that doesn't qualify you.



These people worshipped other gods and they were saved:

Acts 14: 10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. 11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. 12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.


These people worship other gods and they were saved:

22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. 23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.




No, all of these are NOT unpardonable sins nor are the whole sex and gender thing either.

As a matter of fact Romans 5:20 says " but wherever sin grew and spread, God’s grace was there in fuller, greater measure. No matter how much sin crept in, there was always more grace."

So really, there is just more grace for you than others.

At least in my book as per my signature. Others may have different viewpoints.

 

[Father Heathen]

Given how many of the food banks, outreach groups and soup kitchens in the U.K. are run from and by churches, it’s hardly going to be a good thing if they all go.

Church attendance isn't a prerequisite for being charitable. Churches may shutter, but not people's hearts.

 

[Father Heathen]

A family always has organization unless children rule the coup

Or the children grow, eventually out growing.

 

[Kenny]

Or the children grow, eventually out growing.

and form another family

 

[Father Heathen]

and form another family

A healthier one.

 

[Kenny]

A healthier one.

Because they started on a better foundation since they already believed on Jesus unlike their parents (me) who waited until he was 28

 

[Kathryn]

I was interested in Catholicism previously, and read that it is seen as a sin to miss mass and there are required days. Could that be part of the reason the pews are packed? Just curious.

I rather doubt it. For instance, in our diocese there are multiple masses available, and the pews are always packed, at every service, even during "ordinary time." (Which is most of the time.) Also, we enjoy a very busy and interactive volunteer schedule, which is definitely not "compulsary."