Three Eternal Questions

[Jayhawker Soule]

I am not trying to lead anyone in a certain direction, as Deut suggested, ...

But you remain wholly responsible for your presuppositions. If you choose to ask a leading question, be prepared to be challenged by those who do not accept your world view. If you did not realize that it was a leading question, take it as a learning experience. Specifically, be aware that "why am I here" is an "eternal question" only for those who presume a "why".

It seems that those who do not believe in a God, have a pretty depressing view of their life and future( with a few exceptions).

And here (as anticipated) we see the bias of those presuppositions made explicit. Sometime this month I'll have my 10th grandchild. Science is unveiling an ever more amazing Universe. Technology has made exponential gains. Real gains have been made agains racism and sexism, and I believe that the struggle against homophobia will prove successful. And none of this has, in the least, diminished the value of oreo cookies and milk. My life is anything but depressing, and I sure as hell don't need a sociopathic YHWH to cheer me up.

If anything, a belief in a supreme being and afterlife, seems to atleast provide some hope and reason for this existence. Even if it is all in vain.

Ignorance is bliss? How very sad.

 

[tnutz]

I'm sorry, but that is simply not true. I've said this before: People who live moral and ethical lives usually do so because they have a sense of responsibility to themselves and to others. Their incentive is that they want to live in a more sane, peaceful, and just world than the one we have at present, and wish to pass on a better world to succeeding generations.

To hold that moral and ethical living only occurs because people fear hell or damnation is to demean those who seek to lead morally and ethically responsible lives.

Even those of us who believe in something greater than ourselves can find hope and reason for existence among each other.

I never said they lived less moral or ethical lives. I know many who are wonderful people because they feel it's the right thing to do. Not because they feel an accountability to a God. I have no beef with an atheist, ect. as long they are decent folks.

 

[tnutz]

But you remain wholly responsible for your presuppositions. If you choose to ask a leading question, be prepared to be challenged by those who do not accept your world view. If you did not realize that it was a leading question, take it as a learning experience. Specifically, be aware that "why am I here" is an "eternal question" only for those who presume a "why".

Deut, buddy. You are reading too far into the questions. But I understand what you are saying. I honestly want to hear how people of different faiths answer these questions. I guess these are not good questions for atheists, ect. because they don't care.

And here (as anticipated) we see the bias of those presuppositions made explicit. Sometime this month I'll have my 10th grandchild. Science is unveiling an ever more amazing Universe. Technology has made exponential gains. Real gains have been made agains racism and sexism, and I believe that the struggle against homophobia will prove successful. And none of this has, in the least, diminished the value of oreo cookies and milk. My life is anything but depressing, and I sure as hell don't need a sociopathic YHWH to cheer me up.

Again, not a bias Deut, read the posts, they don't sound to happy. If I read them wrong, then my bad. I am glad you are happy with your life.

Ignorance is bliss? How very sad.

I added my reply in the quote, somehow? How do you dissect different parts of one's post and reply to them? Can anyone help.

 

[joeboonda]

The idea of an afterlife gives me a great sense of hope. My belief in God gives me a sense of purpose in life.

 

[tnutz]

Thanks for fixing my post Maize. How do you do that?

 

[Katzpur]

tnutz,

I couldn't help but notice now few sincere replies you received. Most were just attempts at being cute. Now I'm curious as to how you'd answer your own questions. Would you mind sharing your perspective?

Kathryn

 

[kreeden]

Deut , your ability is jump to conclusions , and assume that there is only the one answer to everything , all the while using logic to do so , amazes me . Now I agree with what you are saying about the question , other then that Tnutz was trying to lead anyone . I assume that he just considered that there most be a reason why we are here , and never considered that another may not think so .

And you are a Libra ? Loosen up guy . There is a huge multi-deminsional world out there . Enjoy what you can .

As for my answers to the questions ...
1 : Don't know
2 : Don't know
3 : Don't know

But I have a pretty good idea where I am .

 

[ChrisP]

1. Where did I come from?

2. Why am I here?

3. Where am I going after this life?

Give me your answers, and explanations. I am interested to hear the different points of view.

1. I came from the formless Tao.

2. I am here because I am here. This does not mean I should waste my time however.

3. I will be where I am now, just without my body.

 

[Majikthise]

I guess these are not good questions for atheists, ect. because they don't care. .

Huh?

 

[Majikthise]

tnutz,

I couldn't help but notice now few sincere replies you received. Most were just attempts at being cute. Now I'm curious as to how you'd answer your own questions. Would you mind sharing your perspective?

Kathryn

Just so I am not included, my answers were not an attempt at cuteness. I am very serious about this and those answers define my exsistance for me just as surely as any other thoughtful persons would.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

1. Where did I come from?

2. Why am I here?

3. Where am I going after this life?

Give me your answers, and explanations. I am interested to hear the different points of view.

Tnutz, I'm not sure if you wish us to reply from the view of our various religions, or if you are simply curious about our individual viewpoints. Since I can only offer my viewpoint, I hope that will suffice.

1. Apparently, the exhibit of King Tut at the Field Museum in Chicago was quite romantic, and I made an appearance about nine months after. I could get more graphic, but I really don't want to. (And I hope this is not viewed as a flippant remark, since it's the only thing I'm pretty sure of.)

2. Why am I here? To learn to accept unconditional love. Partly because of the fantabulous people here at RF, I've completed my life goal already, so I can spend the rest of this existence trying to help others.

3. I don't know. I hope to a realm of eternal libraries.

 

[Green Gaia]

Thanks for fixing my post Maize. How do you do that?

You need to put the

[ /quote] tags around each quoted phrase that you respond to.

 

[Fluffy]

If you consider the question to be meaningless, why respond to it? If you have nothing to say on the subject, you don't need to explain. After all, it's not exactly a requirement that you put in your two cents worth on every topic. Why don't you look for a thread on which you can make a meaningful contribution?

Describing a question as meaningless is, in itself, a meaningful contribution. It reveals insight into a certain type of worldview.

tnutz, whilst those questions may be rather important ones, you tend to find that they are often avoided because continued debate on them is difficult. I can only answer those questions from my own belief, the same as anybody's answers (including Deut's), so backing up what are essentially assumptions not shared by many other people is difficult and so debate becomes tough.

1. I personally came from my parents through reproduction.
2. Is there a reason for my existence? If I made a ball and then justified its existence by saying "I wanted the ball to exist", would that be a sufficient answer to the question? I often find that is not what people mean when they ask "why" but that is what I believe.
3. Another incarnation. Possibly the summerlands but I do not think I am that far along yet.

 

[Valjean]

From a vedantic perspective there are different levels of reality; different realities, in fact. What is true or correct varies with the level on which the question is answered.

From a third-state perspective:
1. Born in Ohio, mostly raised in Maryland and upstate New York.
2. Parents had sex. Sperm and egg fused, began to multiply, &c, &c, &c...
3. My body -- Dust to dust. My ego/atman/consciousness? -- Hard to say. There's been very little serious research on this subject.

From a sixth-state perspective:
1. The question is meaningless. It presupposes the reality of place. I exist/have existed/will exist simultaneously everywhere and everywhen.
2. Teleogical questions are also meaningless at this level. I/Reality/Universe just am.
3. This question presupposes the existance of time -- see answer #1. (See Special Relativity, for that matter).

 

[Katzpur]

Just so I am not included, my answers were not an attempt at cuteness. I am very serious about this and those answers define my exsistance for me just as surely as any other thoughtful persons would.

I did, after all, say "all," not "most." I'm sure tnutz hasn't had a difficult time separating the flippant replies from the serious ones.

 

[ChrisP]

3. I don't know. I hope to a realm of eternal libraries.

That sounds like heaven to me. :162:

 

[michel]

1. Where did I come from?

2. Why am I here?

3. Where am I going after this life?

Give me your answers, and explanations. I am interested to hear the different points of view.

1. My Mother's womb.(My soul was conjoined to my physical body at some stage between conception and birth-I don't know at which stage)
2. To learn to do my best to be as Christ-like as a miserable sinner can get to

3.Hopefully Heaven, to be reuinited with loved ones who have died before me.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I'm sure tnutz hasn't had a difficult time separating the flippant replies from the serious ones.

I suggest that you both did.

 

[ChrisP]

I suggest that you both did.

Hahahaha he does have a sense of humour. YAY! :biglaugh:

 

[s2a]

Was I high at the time in thinking that this thread originated in the "debates" sub-forum? Just the same (moved or not, high or not), it seems more appropriate in the "discussions" section.


Fluffy said:

"Describing a question as meaningless is, in itself, a meaningful contribution. It reveals insight into a certain type of worldview."

*ding*

Exactamundo.

;-)

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tnutz said:

I guess these are not good questions for atheists, ect. because they don't care.

Inaccurate (and poor) characterization.

It's not that atheist's "don't care" about these questions. To an atheist's view, the questions you pose have already been personally confronted, and satisfactorily answered (even if the "answer" may be, "I don't know").

At some point in any rational adult's life, these "eternal questions" are pondered and (sometimes) resolved - while still young, or often enough forestalled until some later stage or personal tragedy in adult life (some might call it a "mid-life crisis").

If you wish to more accurately characterize an atheistic perspective regarding your provided "eternal questions", you might say that such questions have been "asked and answered" to an atheist's standard of rational acceptability beyond reasonable (or any/all) doubts.

To reiterate...it's not that atheist's "don't care" about your "three eternal questions"...it's just that atheist's are no longer "searching for answers" (in those specified regards), and have moved beyond presupposed/inferred conundrums (absent any proscribed "faith") as to be otherwise "unknowable/unanswerable" uncertainties.

It seems that those who do not believe in a God, have a pretty depressing view of their life and future( with a few exceptions).

Ya know, atheists and non-deist's get that a lot (absent any named exceptions on your part)...and it's a tiresome (and especially self-serving) perception held primarily by (color me shocked and amazed)... believers and adherents of deity-based faiths and sects.

From my personalized perspective as an atheist, I note a surprising amount of dismay and depression evinced by believers when confronted by a confident, self-assured, purposed, and directionally motivated (and dare we even suggest, optimistic and happy?) unbeliever.

All too often (after pointed discussion of such "questions") am I left in parting from ardent believers who say...
"I feel sorry for you. You seem like a nice, decent, compassionate guy. Too bad you won't see Heaven".
Usually unspoken, but reflexive sympathies are extended by myself when I think, "Too bad you won't either".

I would think that believers, when contemplating both their life and future, would be especially depressed in consideration: that divorce rates are higher amongst believers than unbelievers; that the States that retain the highest levels of adherent evangelical denominations also evince (predominantly) the highest rates of criminal homicide, unintended teen pregnancy, violent assault, illiteracy, and so on...(sources/reference available [from the American Religion Data Archive] upon request).
Equally depressing, I should think, is the veritable fact that overall rates of violent crime, unintended pregnancies, drug abuse, etc. have been consistently declining at an even greater rate than the overall steady decline in self-ascribed religious belief/adherence.

Odd and most ironic.

Yet optimistically promising...from an atheistic perspective. ;-)

If anything, a belief in a supreme being and afterlife, seems to atleast provide some hope and reason for this existence.

Perhaps that is so, if you require someone or something else to provide you with an intractably inflexible dogma of ascribed "absolutes" in order to retain hope, or find purposeful reason in a mortal existence. To the "unsure" or "still searching", I would recommend a short stint in one of the armed forces first, in order to determine firsthand whether or not your life and future is more promising and better served in complete deference and trust in/to the determinations and dispensational "commandments" of others.

I can not profess to know or understand all claims presented on behalf of an adherent's specified deity's wishes or proclamations of/upon any individual's (or humanity's) origin, purpose, or "ultimate" dispensation - but as a self-professed freethinking and skeptical atheist, I can confidently and most self-assuredly determine and ascribe (and act upon) such independently arrived-upon conclusions reasons and motivations that suit my own capacities and chosen proclivities absent any third-party (or divine) direction, orders, or promises/threats of some "afterlife" punishment/reward system of imposed worship/adherence ultimatums.

To each their own, but I'd much rather prospectively rule in Hell, than most assuredly serve in some Heaven.

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Majikthise said:

Just so I am not included, my answers were not an attempt at cuteness. I am very serious about this and those answers define my exsistance for me just as surely as any other thoughtful persons would.

Hmmmm. Well, OK...

...In confession...

...I was trying to interject (of my own behalf) an element of lightheartedness to the inferred "serious" nature of the questions so posed (no one has ever successfully convicted me of being "cute" in reply)...but to second-handedly echo Majikthise's stated sincerity, I would say that my proffered "answers" were sincere (in both fact and acceptance), and certainly not to be inferred as disingenuous or thoughtless.

---------------------------------

Katzpur said (to tnutz),

Would you mind sharing your perspective?

Agreed. It's difficult to have a "discussion" with a questioner that provides no "answers" of their own.

'Fess up tnutz, or move on.