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Three Faiths, One God

Cordoba

Well-Known Member
[FONT=Arial,Geneva,Verdana,Sans-Serif]Three Faiths, One God: Islam, Christianity & Judaism[/FONT]

A documentary which compares similarities and differences in beliefs and practices between the three faiths: Judaism, Christianity & Islam

Produced by MuslimBridges.org

(Around 10 minutes)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zLnMNfd1Iwo

This is the Muslim belief

What do you think?

Do you agree with the Jewish and/or Christian speakers in this film?
 
Well, right off the bat they make clearly illogical statements. To say that Christianity is true but not the only to God shows that you know nothing about the Christianity. Either Christianity is true and it is the only way to God, or it is false and will never lead you to God, there's no in-between. The Bible clearly states that ALL people are saved in the same way, through Jesus, Romans 3, Acts 15, + others. Jesus clearly states that he is the only way to heaven, John 3, John 14, + others. Christianity and other religions can't both be true at the same time.

Secondly, while these three religions have many similarities and only a few differences, they fail to mention that the differences are about salvation. While getting along and doing the right thing are all good and well, if you miss out on salvation it was all in vain. So these difference are crucial ones. Christianity says Jesus is the Christ, Jews say the Christ has not yet come, and Muslims say there is no Christ. Anyone can see that not more than one of these can be true, it would be contradictory if two or more were true. Overall, the video is ignorant and deceptive.
 

kai

ragamuffin
they claim to the same god in different ways, and those differences are fundamental.and so different as to lay waste the original claim.

the three gods have completely different requirements of their people, who have formed splinter groups which in turn have formed splinter groups.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I think as a general principle that efforts to find a common ground between religions are commendable.
 

rajakrsna

Member
I think as a general principle that efforts to find a common ground between religions are commendable.

How can a Hindu make friends with one who doesn`t like to eat pork & yet loves to eat beef? & how can a Muslim & Hindu love a Christian who eats both pork & beef? The three I believe if they want to reach a common ground is to eat only fish :D & vegetables when they`re having a party.
 

kai

ragamuffin
I think as a general principle that efforts to find a common ground between religions are commendable.
why? for appeasement , in the past it was used as a lever to make conversion easier "its the same god anyway why lose your head over it"
 
Anyone who claims that the God of these three religions is the same, then you must also be claiming that God is the source of all the confusion and a liar. If God came and told Christians that Jesus is the only way to heaven, and then went and told Muslims that Jesus isn't the way to heaven, then all the blame for the confusion falls upon him. Its blatantly contradictory from all sides to suggest that all of these religions are from the same God. Either he did or he didn't send Jesus as the messiah to offer us salvation through him. Anyone who studies these religions can see that God has distinctly different personalities and they certainly are not the same. They only way in which all of them could be true is if God decided to purposely confuse people by presenting multiple conflicting revelations about himself to mankind, making him a liar, but all three reject the idea that God is a liar.
 
How can a Hindu make friends with one who doesn`t like to eat pork & yet loves to eat beef? & how can a Muslim & Hindu love a Christian who eats both pork & beef? The three I believe if they want to reach a common ground is to eat only fish :D & vegetables when they`re having a party.

FISH? Bad hindu bad!
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I don't think everyone would have such a problem thinking that the dissimilar notions of god in those three religions were all attempts to get at the same ultimate source.
 

kai

ragamuffin
I don't think everyone would have such a problem thinking that the dissimilar notions of god in those three religions were all attempts to get at the same ultimate source.
but they all claim theirs is the ultimate source there cannot be three ,almighty "one" gods unless thats the ultimate trinity
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
Jesus at the age of 12 amazed the Rabi's with his knowledge. Later, after the Jews rejected Jesus as the son of God, (when he was a grown man), did he preach to the gentiles.

Why would an all knowing God, someone who knows exactly how the future would manifistate itself and the divisions that would occur make things so blurry for all three religions?

Why would God on earth not write a text for all of us to follow himself instead of relying on conflicting texts written many years later after his death?

Then there is the matter of the church deciding what texts were to be included in the bible and what texts where not. Surely people can see that many texts gave women just as much power as men in regards to preaching and leading the church. These texts where repressed time and time again by all three branches of the same faith.

After the perversion of the word of God by man, each group claimed that this was the final proffit, and no more would follow. Why would God limit his ability to reach his people? I'm not saying God would send additional messengers or not, but why would an all knowing, all powerful God ever limit himself?

Any messenger could, (being human), make a mistake that might need to be corrected later especially if you buy into free will. More likely than not, the messenger was spot on at the time the message was delivered, but the message was perverted as generations passed the text down one to another,(kinda like playing telephone). None of this could have been intentional by any generation, but being imperfect as we all are mistakes could happen and when enough mistakes compile, the Lord may find it necessary for us to receive another proffit.

What is the test of a new proffit? There should not be conflicting testament to previous text. If this basic concept is true, then why would it be necessary to send another messenger from God?

If we apply this standard to Christianity, how does this fly in regards to the "New Covenant"?

What if, Paul was a false proffit? Remember now, I said what if. Are we not required to test any new theories presented? Paul changed the Abrahamic religion quite a bit. Did Jesus give him this dogma while he was on earth, or did Paul just decide to change the Christian religion to his own liking?
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friends,
God is a concept which is or should be the same for all.
Religion is only a path / way to self realisation.
For arguments sake, one can continue till infinity withourt reaching any conclusion.
Love & rgds
 

Cordoba

Well-Known Member
Anyone who claims that the God of these three religions is the same, then you must also be claiming that God is the source of all the confusion and a liar. If God came and told Christians that Jesus is the only way to heaven, and then went and told Muslims that Jesus isn't the way to heaven, then all the blame for the confusion falls upon him. Its blatantly contradictory from all sides to suggest that all of these religions are from the same God. Either he did or he didn't send Jesus as the messiah to offer us salvation through him. Anyone who studies these religions can see that God has distinctly different personalities and they certainly are not the same. They only way in which all of them could be true is if God decided to purposely confuse people by presenting multiple conflicting revelations about himself to mankind, making him a liar, but all three reject the idea that God is a liar.

The Muslim position on this is very clear:

He is the same God, but chages madein earlier scriptures were man-made changes

The God of Abraham, Moses and Jesus is the same God of Muhammad, peace be upon them all
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Actually, Paul SAID he was commisioned by Christ. The only testimony to that is Paul.
Paul was always considered a leper by the other Apostles and they were happy to send him off to the gentiles because he was persona non grata to the Jerusalem Church.

Regards,
Scott
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
The Muslim position on this is very clear:

He is the same God, but chages madein earlier scriptures were man-made changes

The God of Abraham, Moses and Jesus is the same God of Muhammad, peace be upon them all

This is also fearlessly maintained by Baha`i Scripture.

Regards,
Scott
 
The Muslim position on this is very clear:

He is the same God, but chages madein earlier scriptures were man-made changes

The God of Abraham, Moses and Jesus is the same God of Muhammad, peace be upon them all
Yes, I know the Muslims claim the Bible was corrupted, but the problem with this theory is that there's no actual evidence to support it. The evidence that we do have overwhelming shows that the Bible is the most creditable ancient literary document of all time. There are over 24,000 New Testament manuscripts that have been found, nearly 6000 that have been found in the original Greek it was written in. We have fragments of the New Testament from as little as 30 years after the original was first written, and at least one complete copy for all of the Biblical books of the New Testament around 150 years after they were first written. In contrast, there are been no Qur'an manuscripts fragments dated before 120 years after Muhammad's death, and the entire Qur'an is not found until 200 years after Muhammad's death.

Number of New Testament Manuscripts:
New Testament: 24,000; 6000 in the original Greek
Qur'an: ?????

Time between Earliest Fragment and the Original Writing:
New Testament: 30 years
Qur'an: 120 years

Time between the Earliest Complete copy and the Original Writing:
New Testament: 150 years
Qur'an: 200 years

Number of Uncertainties about what was Written in the Original Text:
Bible: 120 - 99.8% Accuracy
Qur'an: ?????

There's no question that the New Testament is much more credible than the Qur'an in the area of Textual Criticism. The New Testament can be proven unchanged over the past 1800 years. The only room for corruption would have been in the 150 years between the original, and even then it is very unlikely due to the many fragments of manuscripts that have been found. Any chance that the Bible has been corrupted is small in comparison to the chance that the Qur'an has been corrupted since the Qur'an has much fewer manuscripts and a larger period of time between the original and the first fragments and the first complete copy. There is no valid reason to believe the New Testament has become corrupt without also believing that every other work of ancient literature, including the Qur'an, has also become corrupt, since the New Testament has more support than all others.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Yes, I know the Muslims claim the Bible was corrupted, but the problem with this theory is that there's no actual evidence to support it. The evidence that we do have overwhelming shows that the Bible is the most creditable ancient literary document of all time. There are over 24,000 New Testament manuscripts that have been found, nearly 6000 that have been found in the original Greek it was written in. We have fragments of the New Testament from as little as 30 years after the original was first written, and at least one complete copy for all of the Biblical books of the New Testament around 150 years after they were first written. In contrast, there are been no Qur'an manuscripts fragments dated before 120 years after Muhammad's death, and the entire Qur'an is not found until 200 years after Muhammad's death.

Number of New Testament Manuscripts:
New Testament: 24,000; 6000 in the original Greek
Qur'an: ?????

Time between Earliest Fragment and the Original Writing:
New Testament: 30 years
Qur'an: 120 years

Time between the Earliest Complete copy and the Original Writing:
New Testament: 150 years
Qur'an: 200 years

Number of Uncertainties about what was Written in the Original Text:
Bible: 120 - 99.8% Accuracy
Qur'an: ?????

There's no question that the New Testament is much more credible than the Qur'an in the area of Textual Criticism. The New Testament can be proven unchanged over the past 1800 years. The only room for corruption would have been in the 150 years between the original, and even then it is very unlikely due to the many fragments of manuscripts that have been found. Any chance that the Bible has been corrupted is small in comparison to the chance that the Qur'an has been corrupted since the Qur'an has much fewer manuscripts and a larger period of time between the original and the first fragments and the first complete copy. There is no valid reason to believe the New Testament has become corrupt without also believing that every other work of ancient literature, including the Qur'an, has also become corrupt, since the New Testament has more support than all others.

The Qur'an was revealed over decades, bit by bit. The Qur'an is arranged by the chronology of its revelation. People were memorizing and recording the Qur'an while Muhammed still lived.

"Verses in the Qur'an originated from verbal tradition, as Islam holds the text was almost entirely memorized by Muhammad's companions as Muhammad recited them, although some verses are believed to be written by Muhammad's companions during Muhammad's dictation. In the Sunni tradition, the collection of the Qur'ān took place under the Caliph Abu Bakr, this task being led by Zayd ibn Thabit Al-Ansari. "The manuscript on which the Qur'an was collected remained with Abu Bakr until Allah took him unto Him, and then with 'Umar until Allah took him unto Him, and finally it remained with Umar's daughter, Hafsa bint Umar."[19] An original copy of the Uthman's standard version of Qur'an from his time is on display at the Topkapi Palace in Istanbul.

"The Qur'an — preservation
Main article: Origin and development of the Qur'an
Abu Bakr was instrumental in preserving the Qur'an in written form. It is said that after the hard-won victory over Musaylimah in the Battle of Yamama fought in 632, Umar (the later Caliph Umar), saw that many of the Muslims who had memorized the Qur'an had died in battle. Fearing that the Qur'an may be lost or corrupted, Umar requested the Caliph Abu Bakr to authorize the compilation and preservation of the Book in written format. After initial hesitation, Abu Bakr made a committee headed by Zayd ibn Thabit which included the memorizers of the Qur'an and Umar and to collect all verses of the Book. After collecting all Qur'anic verses from texts in the possession of various sahaba, Zayd ibn Thabit and members of his committee verfied the reading by comparing with those who had memorized the Qur'an. After they were satisfied that they had not missed out any verse or made any mistakes in reading or writing it down, the text was written down as one single manuscript and presented in a book form to the Caliph Abu Bakr. This process happened within one year of the death of Muhammad when most of his sahaba (companions) were still alive, ensuring that the text would not be corrupted in any form.
Prior to his death, Abu Bakr gave this authorized copy of the Qur'an to Umar - his successor. It remained with him throughout his tenure as Caliph (10 years). Prior to his death, Umar gave this Book to his daughter Hafsa bint Umar, who was one of the wives of Muhammad. Umar did not nominate his successor on his deathbed, and thus preferred to leave this copy with Hafsa so as not to indicate his personal preference of who would be the next caliph. Later on, it became the basis of Uthman Ibn Affan's definitive text of the Qur'an which was published far and wide merely 18 years after the death of the Prophet. Later historians give Uthman Ibn Affan the principal credit for re-verification and publishing the Qur'an. Shi'as reject the idea that Abu Bakr or Umar were instrumental in the collection or preservation of the Qur'an. [18]"

These are from the Wiki articles on the Qur'an and Abu Bak'r

Abu Bakr died within about three years after the death of Muhammed. So your contention that it was not written for 200 years is ridiculous.
 
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