Time: Does the Bible say what Time is?

[paarsurrey]

I noticed how fellow members discussed Time on one of the threads about if life is found on Mars, will we be able to handle it?.
What I found is that various claims are made about the attributes of "Time", and there is a lot of misunderstandings as well as solid facts explained by all.

I thought it will be a nice thread to create to have everyone scrutinizing, not only their opinions, but also mine.
Well, my understanding comes from the Biblical view, because I have learned quite a while ago that using knowledge from this point of view always turns out to be logical and conclusive.
So, Here Go!

Concerning Time, the Bible says: "In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth..."
And God said, "Let there be light...and it was evening, and morning, the first day..."
Then the Sun, Moon and Stars shone on the Earth on the 4th day, and God said: "... Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years".
And many times God says that He was before Time exists before everlasting and so on. (Isaiah 57:15; psalms 90:2; 93:2; 102:27; 103:17)

So, lets see how the Bible describes "Time"!

• Before the first day, there was no light shining on the Earth.
• After the creation of light, the first day began, and Time started to count down to today.
• Before the first day, God created the Heavens and the earth.
• The period in which Goid created the Earth was from "In the Beginning" to before the "First day".

In otherwords.
God started to create in the beginning. The first matter and space for it to exist in, was the origins of the Universe. God continued to create the universes and the Earth was also part of this creation. However, the Earth was still taking shape from an accreted ball of Solids, Liquids and gases, because the Bible says, the Earth was without shape, and dark and full of water.
Then God said light should come in existance, and the first day kicked off. God then described how Time will be measured with the use of the Earth turning on its axis with the Sun shining on it, creating days.
The Bible also says the Earth and Sun will be the mecanism to count days. seasons, and years!

Now, lets see:
Time does not actually exist, and it is just by accident that the movement of the Earth and Sun plays the role of the clockwork of Time, and that we age and uses this clockwork to determine our age.

Therefore, Time is only a measurement on where the Earth and Sun is in relation to each other.
Before this "First day" existed, Time did not exist!
The Bible calls this time period before day one to the first cause, "In the Beginning", and I always say, if scientists wants to call this period "Billions of years", they are welcome to do so, it is not in contradiction with the Bible.
Actually the Biblical description is way better than the Scientific one.
The Bible say the Universe was created before the Earth in "Zero Time", or before the first day.
Science says, the Universe was created 12.5 Billion years ago, and the Solar System (Earth) only 4.5 billion years ago.

Ok, so if we use the Earth and Sun as clockwork to determine "Time", but the Earth and Sun was absent for 8 Billion years, how does the Scientists measure the time from the beginning to the creation of the earth?
easy, they use imaginary time!

Ok, so Time is a by product of movement of matter in space.
If we have Matter in space, and it remains stationary, down to quantum levels, with no photons moving, everything is a complete standstill, there will not be any "Time" to measure at all.

I think this will give perspective on a thought that God is somehow bound by Time, and He had a Beginning.
God is outside of creation, that is matter moving in space, therefore he does not abide in time at all.

What do you thinkl of my analysis?

"I think this will give perspective on a thought:

• that God is somehow bound by Time, and He had a Beginning.
• God is outside of creation, that is matter moving in space, therefore he does not abide in time at all." Unquote. (the bullets by paarsurrey, text remains unchanged)

My contemplation from Quran is that:

• G-d is not bound by time and does not abide in time.
• G-d, Jesus was never god nor son of god in literal and physical terms, G-d is creator of everything including Time.
• G-d always existed and exists from eternity to eternity.
• Creator is always outside His creation or "the created".
• Space and Time both are creation of G-d.
• Quran mentions day/time as a unit of period for understanding of us the humans.

Right, please?

Regards
____________
[55:27]کُلُّ مَنۡ عَلَیۡہَا فَانٍ ﴿ۚۖ۲۷﴾
All that is on it (earth) will pass away.
[55:28]وَّ یَبۡقٰی وَجۡہُ رَبِّکَ ذُو الۡجَلٰلِ وَ الۡاِکۡرَامِ ﴿ۚ۲۸﴾
And there will remain only the Person of thy Lord, Master of Glory and Honour.
[55:29]فَبِاَیِّ اٰلَآءِ رَبِّکُمَا تُکَذِّبٰنِ ﴿۲۹﴾
Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny?
[55:30]یَسۡـَٔلُہٗ مَنۡ فِی السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضِ ؕ کُلَّ یَوۡمٍ ہُوَ فِیۡ شَاۡنٍ ﴿ۚ۳۰﴾
Of Him do beg all that are in the heavens and the earth. Every day He reveals Himself in a different state.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 55: Ar-Rahman
[6:97]فَالِقُ الۡاِصۡبَاحِ ۚ وَ جَعَلَ الَّیۡلَ سَکَنًا وَّ الشَّمۡسَ وَ الۡقَمَرَ حُسۡبَانًا ؕ ذٰلِکَ تَقۡدِیۡرُ الۡعَزِیۡزِ الۡعَلِیۡمِ ﴿۹۷﴾
He causes the break of day; and He made the night for rest and the sun and the moon for reckoning time. That is the decree of the Mighty, the Wise.
[6:98]وَ ہُوَ الَّذِیۡ جَعَلَ لَکُمُ النُّجُوۡمَ لِتَہۡتَدُوۡا بِہَا فِیۡ ظُلُمٰتِ الۡبَرِّ وَ الۡبَحۡرِ ؕ قَدۡ فَصَّلۡنَا الۡاٰیٰتِ لِقَوۡمٍ یَّعۡلَمُوۡنَ ﴿۹۸﴾
And He it is Who has made the stars for you that you may follow the right direction with their help amid the deep darkness of the land and the sea. We have explained the Signs in detail for a people who possess knowledge.
https://www.alislam.org/quran/6:97

 

[Skwim]

.

Time is change dependent. That is, if there is no change, time cannot be said to exist. If all of a sudden everything---absolutely everything, including all subatomic movement (change in location)---stopped changing then time would stop. Time would cease to exist, but should anything then change, time would resume. As for the Bible saying anything about the nature of time, I don't see a thing. At most it simply describes actions within time, and this is hardly describing what time is.

That god exists, or could exist, outside time, not "bounded" by it (whatever that means) is silly. unless, that is, his existence was entirely without change, including whatever he consisted of.

.

.

 

[shmogie]

We are created in the image of God. Correct? If I have sexual organs it is because God does also.

God is identified as male because He is male.

So, God is an allegory? How about Jesus?...Him too?

Good-Ole-Rebel

Ok, are women made in Gods image? So how can we be made in the physical image of God, if God is made up of there distinct beings, that compose single being ? The Spirit is God, the Son is God The Father is God.

We are not made in the physical image of God, we cannot be.

In the OT, before the incarnation, God is never seen as anything but light and energy.

Humans were to reproduce, that is why they were made with sex organs.

So, does God have sex, with whom, a female God, and have baby Gods?

 

[shmogie]

"I think this will give perspective on a thought:

• that God is somehow bound by Time, and He had a Beginning.
• God is outside of creation, that is matter moving in space, therefore he does not abide in time at all." Unquote. (the bullets by paarsurrey, text remains unchanged)

My contemplation from Quran is that:

• G-d is not bound by time and does not abide in time.
• G-d, Jesus was never god nor son of god in literal and physical terms, G-d is creator of everything including Time.
• G-d always existed and exists from eternity to eternity.
• Creator is always outside His creation or "the created".
• Space and Time both are creation of G-d.
• Quran mentions day/time as a unit of period for understanding of us the humans.

Right, please?

Regards
____________
[55:27]کُلُّ مَنۡ عَلَیۡہَا فَانٍ ﴿ۚۖ۲۷﴾
All that is on it (earth) will pass away.
[55:28]وَّ یَبۡقٰی وَجۡہُ رَبِّکَ ذُو الۡجَلٰلِ وَ الۡاِکۡرَامِ ﴿ۚ۲۸﴾
And there will remain only the Person of thy Lord, Master of Glory and Honour.
[55:29]فَبِاَیِّ اٰلَآءِ رَبِّکُمَا تُکَذِّبٰنِ ﴿۲۹﴾
Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny?
[55:30]یَسۡـَٔلُہٗ مَنۡ فِی السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضِ ؕ کُلَّ یَوۡمٍ ہُوَ فِیۡ شَاۡنٍ ﴿ۚ۳۰﴾
Of Him do beg all that are in the heavens and the earth. Every day He reveals Himself in a different state.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 55: Ar-Rahman
[6:97]فَالِقُ الۡاِصۡبَاحِ ۚ وَ جَعَلَ الَّیۡلَ سَکَنًا وَّ الشَّمۡسَ وَ الۡقَمَرَ حُسۡبَانًا ؕ ذٰلِکَ تَقۡدِیۡرُ الۡعَزِیۡزِ الۡعَلِیۡمِ ﴿۹۷﴾
He causes the break of day; and He made the night for rest and the sun and the moon for reckoning time. That is the decree of the Mighty, the Wise.
[6:98]وَ ہُوَ الَّذِیۡ جَعَلَ لَکُمُ النُّجُوۡمَ لِتَہۡتَدُوۡا بِہَا فِیۡ ظُلُمٰتِ الۡبَرِّ وَ الۡبَحۡرِ ؕ قَدۡ فَصَّلۡنَا الۡاٰیٰتِ لِقَوۡمٍ یَّعۡلَمُوۡنَ ﴿۹۸﴾
And He it is Who has made the stars for you that you may follow the right direction with their help amid the deep darkness of the land and the sea. We have explained the Signs in detail for a people who possess knowledge.
https://www.alislam.org/quran/6:97

Right as to time, flagrantly erroneous as to Christ. A single persons imagination 600 years after the documentation of multiple witnesses as to Christ and who He was is a sad joke.

 

[Bird123]

I noticed how fellow members discussed Time on one of the threads about if life is found on Mars, will we be able to handle it?.
What I found is that various claims are made about the attributes of "Time", and there is a lot of misunderstandings as well as solid facts explained by all.

I thought it will be a nice thread to create to have everyone scrutinizing, not only their opinions, but also mine.
Well, my understanding comes from the Biblical view, because I have learned quite a while ago that using knowledge from this point of view always turns out to be logical and conclusive.
So, Here Go!

Concerning Time, the Bible says: "In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth..."
And God said, "Let there be light...and it was evening, and morning, the first day..."
Then the Sun, Moon and Stars shone on the Earth on the 4th day, and God said: "... Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years".
And many times God says that He was before Time exists before everlasting and so on. (Isaiah 57:15; psalms 90:2; 93:2; 102:27; 103:17)

So, lets see how the Bible describes "Time"!

• Before the first day, there was no light shining on the Earth.
• After the creation of light, the first day began, and Time started to count down to today.
• Before the first day, God created the Heavens and the earth.
• The period in which Goid created the Earth was from "In the Beginning" to before the "First day".

In otherwords.
God started to create in the beginning. The first matter and space for it to exist in, was the origins of the Universe. God continued to create the universes and the Earth was also part of this creation. However, the Earth was still taking shape from an accreted ball of Solids, Liquids and gases, because the Bible says, the Earth was without shape, and dark and full of water.
Then God said light should come in existance, and the first day kicked off. God then described how Time will be measured with the use of the Earth turning on its axis with the Sun shining on it, creating days.
The Bible also says the Earth and Sun will be the mecanism to count days. seasons, and years!

Now, lets see:
Time does not actually exist, and it is just by accident that the movement of the Earth and Sun plays the role of the clockwork of Time, and that we age and uses this clockwork to determine our age.

Therefore, Time is only a measurement on where the Earth and Sun is in relation to each other.
Before this "First day" existed, Time did not exist!
The Bible calls this time period before day one to the first cause, "In the Beginning", and I always say, if scientists wants to call this period "Billions of years", they are welcome to do so, it is not in contradiction with the Bible.
Actually the Biblical description is way better than the Scientific one.
The Bible say the Universe was created before the Earth in "Zero Time", or before the first day.
Science says, the Universe was created 12.5 Billion years ago, and the Solar System (Earth) only 4.5 billion years ago.

Ok, so if we use the Earth and Sun as clockwork to determine "Time", but the Earth and Sun was absent for 8 Billion years, how does the Scientists measure the time from the beginning to the creation of the earth?
easy, they use imaginary time!

Ok, so Time is a by product of movement of matter in space.
If we have Matter in space, and it remains stationary, down to quantum levels, with no photons moving, everything is a complete standstill, there will not be any "Time" to measure at all.

I think this will give perspective on a thought that God is somehow bound by Time, and He had a Beginning.
God is outside of creation, that is matter moving in space, therefore he does not abide in time at all.

What do you thinkl of my analysis?

Your quote:Ok, so Time is a by product of movement of matter in space.

My Answer: Is that really what time is?? I think not. Stories are nice but seldom convert into true reality.

 

[Aupmanyav]

If you don't mind the additional questions:

Time is "maya" for an Advaitist? How does an Advaitist describe Light? Is it an important symbol in Hinduism?

( The reason I ask is that Light is often used as a metaphor in Abrahamic beliefs, but I am not familiar virtually ignorant of Hinduism and Non-Dualism. )

You have sure missed something. I am not speaking for all Hindus. We have views as far distant from each other as North and South pole. I am speaking about what I believe as an 'advaitist'.

Sankaracharya, the most famous of 'advaitists', said, "Brahma satyam, jagan-mithya .." (Brahman is the truth, the observed is an illusion).
All that which we observe with our senses is 'maya', illusion. In reality, there is no finger, there are only points of energy.
Presentation modified by evolution in brain.
The real seeing is when one realizes this.
Note: Jagat/Jagan - what we see when we are awake, the world. Jagan derives from 'jna', like in 'Jnana', knowledge. One knows only when one is awake.

 

[dybmh]

You have sure missed something. I am not speaking for all Hindus. We have views as far distant from each other as North and South pole. I am speaking about what I believe as an 'advaitist'.

Sankaracharya, the most famous of 'advaitists', said, "Brahma satyam, jagan-mithya .." (Brahman is the truth, the observed is an illusion).
All that which we observe with our senses is 'maya', illusion. In reality, there is no finger, there are only points of energy.
Presentation modified by evolution in brain.
The real seeing is when one realizes this.
Note: Jagat/Jagan - what we see when we are awake, the world. Jagan derives from 'jna', like in 'Jnana', knowledge. One knows only when one is awake.

Thank you.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

On earth, God will inhabit the body of a woman. The name of God has been kept secret as well as her gender. That is why we don't know the given name of God. If we knew the name of God, we would know the God of Israel is a woman and Israel would've been weakened by it.

That God's Spirit can dwell in a woman doesn't make Him female.

We know the names of God as given in the Bible. The greatest name is Jesus Christ. (Philipians 2:9-11)

God created Adam before He created Israel. The God of Israel is not a woman. He is always spoken of as He. God created Adam first, in his image. Why? Because God is male.. God always knew that The Son, would be given a body. What body? We know Him as Jesus Christ. And Jesus Christ was more in the image of God than Adam. He was the very exact or express image in every way. (Heb. 1:3) And Jesus Christ was and is male.

This idea that God is a woman but calls Himself He just so as not to weaken Israel, is silly. If not blasphemous.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Ok, are women made in Gods image? So how can we be made in the physical image of God, if God is made up of there distinct beings, that compose single being ? The Spirit is God, the Son is God The Father is God.

We are not made in the physical image of God, we cannot be.

In the OT, before the incarnation, God is never seen as anything but light and energy.

Humans were to reproduce, that is why they were made with sex organs.

So, does God have sex, with whom, a female God, and have baby Gods?

Women is in the image of God in that she is of Adam. (Gen. 1:27)

Our physical image is just as much the image of God as any other part of our image.

I don't know where you get this 'light and energy' as God. God is light. Yes. God has power, all power, yes. But God is a Person. This is why we have personality. The attributes we have, we have because God has. God is Spirit, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have shape. (John 5:37) "...ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape."

Actually God is spawning children at this time of which we who are Christians are. When Jesus rose from the dead do you think He no longer had genitiles? When your body is raised from the dead, will you have genitiles?

Understand I do not pretend to know all about how the sex is accomplished between God and another. I am saying that we are created sexual beings because God is also.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[SA Huguenot]

I think the explanation in my belief (I am an 'advaitist' Hindu - believer in non-duality) is the best. It says time is a mirage, an illusion, 'maya'.
Have something better than that?
You too agree that time does not exist. In another post you say 'I think Time is imaginary'. Even movement is imaginary.
Which means what is written in Bible is false, just a made up story. Why does God mislead people into believing false things?

Science knows only about the inflation and what happened after that. There are various theories about what happened before that (Big Bang), but nothing final yet.

What you just did was to say movement is imaginary, then you just hopped over and accuse the Bible of being false.
I explained that Time is the result of movement where we measure at least 2 objects in relation to its distance travelled, with the distance the Earth and Sun moved in relation to itself.
If I said Time is imaginary, I explained it as the above.
What you also missed out on is the fact that I said, this is all I found in the Bible.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What you just did was to say movement is imaginary, then you just hopped over and accuse the Bible of being false.
I explained that Time is the result of movement where we measure at least 2 objects in relation to its distance travelled, with the distance the Earth and Sun moved in relation to itself.
If I said Time is imaginary, I explained it as the above.
What you also missed out on is the fact that I said, this is all I found in the Bible.

What makes you think that time does not exist without movement?

 

[SA Huguenot]

Light has nothing to do with time

I agree in the sense that light has nothing to do with time.
What I said was: We measure time with the use of the period it takes the Earth to sircumvent the Sun.
We divide it up in 360 and a quarter days, divide that into 24 hours and divide that up into 60 minutes and divide it up in 60 to get dseconds.
This is the measurement of Hrs and Seconds.
I simply made a statement that if the Sun did not shine on the Earth, we will not have this time measurement.
and I also said, If the earth did not turn around the Sun, time will not me measured as we do.
The fact is, Time is the measurement of 2 moving objects, using the pace of which the Earth and Sun travels in relation to each other.

We can go further, the Solar Time we use can also be used elsewhere in the Universe, but it will still have a relation to where the Earth and Sun is in relation to each other.
or, we can use a star elsewhere in the universe, in relation to another star moving in relation to each other, and it will perhaps have a different length than our hours, but this is how time is measured.
Now, I said, freeze everything, and time does not exist.

 

[SA Huguenot]

My bad, i should have written time has nothing to do with light.

Time does not function because of light, light is not needed to time to pass.

I understood what you said.
And you are right.
But from my view, light does not dictate Time at all.
All it does is to show us where the Earth is in relation to the Sun.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I agree in the sense that light has nothing to do with time.
What I said was: We measure time with the use of the period it takes the Earth to sircumvent the Sun.
We divide it up in 360 and a quarter days, divide that into 24 hours and divide that up into 60 minutes and divide it up in 60 to get dseconds.
This is the measurement of Hrs and Seconds.
I simply made a statement that if the Sun did not shine on the Earth, we will not have this time measurement.
and I also said, If the earth did not turn around the Sun, time will not me measured as we do.
The fact is, Time is the measurement of 2 moving objects, using the pace of which the Earth and Sun travels in relation to each other.

We can go further, the Solar Time we use can also be used elsewhere in the Universe, but it will still have a relation to where the Earth and Sun is in relation to each other.
or, we can use a star elsewhere in the universe, in relation to another star moving in relation to each other, and it will perhaps have a different length than our hours, but this is how time is measured.
Now, I said, freeze everything, and time does not exist.

There are many ways of measuring time, but guess what. The definition of a second, which all time is based upon, comes from light.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Before THAT first day, time did exist.
Notice that when the spirit of God (the Word who became Christ employing it) moved upon the face of the waters, the waters were already there.
The Earth HAD BECOME (look up the word translated "was") waste and ruin at an unspecified time AFTER its initial completion.
What followed was a renewing in preparation for man -after the angels under Satan "kept not their former estate" -which was Earth.
Similarly, it was not the initial creation of other celestial bodies, but renewing, ordering, juxtaposing, etc.

"IN THE BEGINNING" is a very vague phrase -and does not necessarily refer to the VERY beginning.
It pretty much means back then -before this -and the subject being discussed should be considered.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....
In the beginning, O Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands....
But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’...

Time is a measure of interrelationship -but of that which has "always" existed.
Time moves "forward" inasmuch as one configuration follows the previous.

God does not say he HAD a beginning -but that he WAS the beginning.
Not much is discussed about what he was doing before deciding to create the physical universe -but as long as there was/he was of some dynamic configuration, there was "time".
Some say that time began with the big bang -as the singularity expanded, but that essentially assumes the universe is the sum total of all things -and that there was no external reference, no history leading up to the singularity/big bang... but it would be more correct to say that universe time began at that point.
If "I AM THAT AM" is literally the sum of all that exists, then "time" would describe the various states of "God" -and the universe would essentially be made of some portion of "God" -as would ourselves.

A developing God composed of that which has always existed could still be accurately described as "eternal".
Otherwise, are we to think that a complex and capable God did absolutely nothing in the forever before the big bang -then suddenly created instantaneously?
If God created the universe, there would have been a point where the idea was conceived, brainstormed, planned, executed, etc. -so there would have been activity before it -and onward -just as the creation of the Earth is described here...

"Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy"

It would not actually be against scripture if there was a "time" before God knew himself! God would always have been God even if God developed to the point of self-awareness, complete self-understanding, creativity, self-replication, etc....

Thanks for this one.
Just to clarify,
I said that the measurement of Time as we understand it in Hours, Minutes and seconds started in Genesis once the light of the Sun shon on the atmosphere of the Earth.
before this there was a dim red glowing Sun, and the Earth was still shapeless (without shape) still taking form from an accretion collecting matter in its surrounding space.
Therefore, I understand that "measurable Time, did not exist before the Solar system was operational as we know it today.
Yet, God say that in the Beginning He created the Heavens and the Earth.
Therefore, there was a space of Time not measurable between "In the Beginning", and "The First day."
Going back to "In the Beginning", might as well be the Big Bang", where the universe came into existance.
This is the point of beginning, which incidently is what science agrees too.
Now, I say God was "Before" this "In the beginning". and this is how I understand Genesis 1: 1.
Therefore, before Time was measured as we do before the First day, there was a time period where time was not measured, but it went back all the way to "In the beginning".
Then we have a point in history where God created everything, resulting in an understanding that He existed before this Time.

This is why I say, God exists free of Time and it has no effect on Him.
We age and measure it with our solar time.
He does not age, and exists outside of Time.

 

[We Never Know]

I agree in the sense that light has nothing to do with time.
What I said was: We measure time with the use of the period it takes the Earth to sircumvent the Sun.
We divide it up in 360 and a quarter days, divide that into 24 hours and divide that up into 60 minutes and divide it up in 60 to get dseconds.
This is the measurement of Hrs and Seconds.
I simply made a statement that if the Sun did not shine on the Earth, we will not have this time measurement.
and I also said, If the earth did not turn around the Sun, time will not me measured as we do.
The fact is, Time is the measurement of 2 moving objects, using the pace of which the Earth and Sun travels in relation to each other.

We can go further, the Solar Time we use can also be used elsewhere in the Universe, but it will still have a relation to where the Earth and Sun is in relation to each other.
or, we can use a star elsewhere in the universe, in relation to another star moving in relation to each other, and it will perhaps have a different length than our hours, but this is how time is measured.
Now, I said, freeze everything, and time does not exist.

Time is nothing more than a period that has been assigned by man. Time passes the same in light as it does in darkness.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Thanks for this one.
Just to clarify,
I said that the measurement of Time as we understand it in Hours, Minutes and seconds started in Genesis once the light of the Sun shon on the atmosphere of the Earth.
before this there was a dim red glowing Sun, and the Earth was still shapeless (without shape) still taking form from an accretion collecting matter in its surrounding space.
Therefore, I understand that "measurable Time, did not exist before the Solar system was operational as we know it today.
Yet, God say that in the Beginning He created the Heavens and the Earth.
Therefore, there was a space of Time not measurable between "In the Beginning", and "The First day."
Going back to "In the Beginning", might as well be the Big Bang", where the universe came into existance.
This is the point of beginning, which incidently is what science agrees too.
Now, I say God was "Before" this "In the beginning". and this is how I understand Genesis 1: 1.
Therefore, before Time was measured as we do before the First day, there was a time period where time was not measured, but it went back all the way to "In the beginning".
Then we have a point in history where God created everything, resulting in an understanding that He existed before this Time.

This is why I say, God exists free of Time and it has no effect on Him.
We age and measure it with our solar time.
He does not age, and exists outside of Time.

A person cannot make a scientific argument when he does not understand the sciences.

 

[We Never Know]

Thanks for this one.
Just to clarify,
I said that the measurement of Time as we understand it in Hours, Minutes and seconds started in Genesis once the light of the Sun shon on the atmosphere of the Earth.
before this there was a dim red glowing Sun, and the Earth was still shapeless (without shape) still taking form from an accretion collecting matter in its surrounding space.
Therefore, I understand that "measurable Time, did not exist before the Solar system was operational as we know it today.
Yet, God say that in the Beginning He created the Heavens and the Earth.
Therefore, there was a space of Time not measurable between "In the Beginning", and "The First day."
Going back to "In the Beginning", might as well be the Big Bang", where the universe came into existance.
This is the point of beginning, which incidently is what science agrees too.
Now, I say God was "Before" this "In the beginning". and this is how I understand Genesis 1: 1.
Therefore, before Time was measured as we do before the First day, there was a time period where time was not measured, but it went back all the way to "In the beginning".
Then we have a point in history where God created everything, resulting in an understanding that He existed before this Time.

This is why I say, God exists free of Time and it has no effect on Him.
We age and measure it with our solar time.
He does not age, and exists outside of Time.

Again Time is nothing more than a period that has been assigned by man. Time passes the same in light as it does in darkness.
Age is nothing more than the effect of time, whether it be in light or darkness.

 

[Yokefellow]

I have researched this topic in-depth for many years. It's one of my favorite studies.

Long story short, the Bible describes Time as a perpetual 'loop'.

The end connects to the beginning like an Ouroboros.

Revelation connects right back to Genesis.

 

[SA Huguenot]

What makes you think that time does not exist without movement?

I understand Time as a period that passes.
how will one measure a moving object travelling away from point a into space.
We will say, it travells at say, 10 Km per hour.
How do we find an hour?
We need the period measurement as the Earth traversed the Sun.
How do we get distance? (The Km)
We need a pre determined measurement of distance.
Now, Distance is easy, we can measure the earth, divide it up into smaller sections and call it our measurement.
We can even divide the distance between the sun and earth into smaller useable measurements.
Therefore, to get Distance, we need an object occupying a large area., this is called Space.

Ok, so distance is not a problem, we will use the Km measurement.
Now we need to find the period of a travelling body in space, to determine the time it took to travel the KM.
This is where we need 2 objects moving in relation to each other.
We can use the Sun and Earth because it moves in relation to each other.
We will then divide this movement up in measureable unist, and in this case we will use the Hour.

Now, we could also have used other moving bodies such as 2 distant stars encircling each other to create our own measurement of time, but be as it may.
To measure Time, you need 2 moving bodies, and measure the period it takes to travel around itself.
Now, it is also possible that both these bodies can travel through space at the speed of light, but we wont know, because we can only observe the movement in relation to each other.
It might also be that one of these bodies are stationary!
But, again, we wont know, because we have only these 2 reference points to observe.
Now, lets do an experiment.
Stop everything, no movement.

What do we get?
No time.
Therefore, Time is the measurement of matter moving in space.
Remove matter, and Time seizes to exist.
If God created matter, He came before Matter, and Space, therefore He is not affected by Time at all.