To Be or Not To Be: your gender (Vivek R.)

[icehorse]

they are statements saying from the group you linked to that transgenderism doesn't exist. The very thing you accused me of lying about.

Man, you have to learn to make finer distinctions. The organization you're misrepresenting (deliberately?), is saying that we have no way of knowing if a kid is transgender until they are adults.

And the evidence is growing that protocols that pretend to know if a kid is transgender are wildly inaccurate. And given the severe medical side effects of using these protocols, we shouldn't be too quick to use them.

So once again, what we're saying is no GAC for kids. Adults can do what they want. And that's what the organization is saying.

And finally, this oft-repeated "you're denying their existence" nonsense is way past tired.

 

[icehorse]

you have been asked many times to back up your claims about just how WPATH is corrupt. You have never once replied.

That's simply not true. Man I wish I could earn $10 for every instance when I have indeed backed up my claims concerning WPARTH, on this forum.

So really dude, stop misrepresenting me and my posts. Stick to the topics at hand.

==

If you care so much about getting GAC to kids, you've been told enough times on this forum that WPATH is corrupt, that it seems to me you owe it you yourself to do a little research. I know you're dug in here, but imagine discovering that you've been dead wrong. (Which I believe you are.) What this means is that you've been advocating for basically ruining confused kids' lives. And the same goes for understanding math and stats and medicine and the scientific process.

 

[icehorse]

Overall health in a person with gender dysphoria is not perfectly fine. The stress, anxiety and mood disorders can be crippling and then there is the negative impact GD has on ones entire life, pretending to be something you are not is detrimental mentally and physically

We know that a huge percentage of kids with GD have a host of other comorbidities. Explain how you can tease those apart to come to the conclusion that GD is the culprit. Maybe it's the autism or the bipolar or the depression that's independent of GD.

Look, the kids we're discussing ARE suffering. It's just that you have to look at the whole person, not just the political disorder you happen to be interested in.

 

[icehorse]

do you have any response other than more personals attacks?

You're mis-applying math, stats, and science. How would you prefer I respond? Pretend you're not?

 

[stvdv]

Overall health in a person with gender dysphoria is not perfectly fine.

Thank you for correcting my fault. My mistake, when I wrote it, I got the feeling someone might correct me

The stress, anxiety and mood disorders can be crippling and then there is the negative impact GD has on ones entire life, pretending to be something you are not is detrimental mentally and physically

True

That is a huge claim and not one born out by evidence

True

Sexual and Physical Health After Sex Reassignment Surgery by Griet De Cuypere found many post transitions individuals had improved physical health related to being more willing to engage in healthy body positive activities.

Great to hear

IMO, the worst in GD is, that other people discriminate them and belittle their feelings. I have been depressed for ca. 30 years, and schizophrenia hit me also.

But, luckily "God" cured me, so finally my life gets a bit smoother now

 

[Shadow Wolf]

"this is a very new phenomenon which is based on no credible scientific research"

This is how you know someone is full of **** and never gave the subject a good or fair study.

 

[Revoltingest]

I hope that by putting it this way, that it's obvious that transitioning is very different from the other ones you mention

It is NOT like the other (above) procedures

There are at least 2 essential differences:
a1) Physical health perfectly fine in Gender Dysphoria
a2) Physical health is critically bad in heart transplant

b1) Physical health is big time damaged after GD program
b2) Physical health is big time improved after hear transplant

Very different with some similarities.

 

[Revoltingest]

There are all kinds of "mutilations" if I think of certain African tribes. Or even tattoos or earrings and stuff

When Big Pharma with Big Money get involved then it's time to be vigilant. Money greediness breeds demonic practices, as very few humans are Saints in Kali Yuga, many easily give in to $$$ temptation

IF no brainwash, imposing, media madness is involved, nor organ danger etc., so no physical real harm at all
THEN I don't stop them
ELSE I don't stop them

Money & demons, eh.
I don't believe in sky fairies or their adversaries.
Many horrible mutilations are done because of
religion, eg, genital mutilation of children.
Not for money. Done for God.

 

[Revoltingest]

A surgeon uses the same knife to cure

That applies to abortions & sex transition too.

 

[Revoltingest]

Okay, sometimes we differ from opinion
glad you're not my doctor, though

I'd fix you up all right.
You'd go in for a hernia operation,
& come out as Miss Stevie Deevie.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I hope that by putting it this way, that it's obvious that transitioning is very different from the other ones you mention

It is NOT like the other (above) procedures

There are at least 2 essential differences:
a1) Physical health perfectly fine in Gender Dysphoria
a2) Physical health is critically bad in heart transplant

b1) Physical health is big time damaged after GD program
b2) Physical health is big time improved after hear transplant

Being physically healthy isn't necessarily healthy. This is medical anthropology. Being healthy is physical and mental. This is why these "perfect health" examples fall apart because that is only one part of the picture and it serves no one to act and pretend it's the end all-be all of wellness (this also goes into the euthanasia debate).
Amd do tell me how my physical health has been "big time damaged" from a "gd program"? Damaged bad? My mental state improved so much I quit tobacco and now rarely drink and hardly at all to drunkeness.
So you've got a precipitous hill in trying to tell me my health is wrecked, especially as you aren't my physician and don't have access to my records to know my health.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As a vegetarian I think it's kind of cool that they don't use lab rats for this experimenting phase

You say its an experimenting phase but medical transitions have been happening for over a century now.

Especially knowing that:
Can gender dysphoria go away?
CONCLUSION: Most children grow out of their gender dysphoria as they reach adolescence.

This has actually been known for a long time. This is why we let real, experienced professionals who are trained in this subject handle care decisions and not uneducated and ill and underinformed laymen like you. Ya know, standard, run of the mill healthcare policies and practices?

 

[stvdv]

What if the emotional trauma is not getting meds, hormones, surgery and stuff?

Thank you for your question

I'm convinced there is a root trauma underneath the "maybe trauma" you mention. I believe in strengthening the base, so solving the root cause, and I avoid symptomatic cure, unless the physical pain is too much

Don't you think it's wise to solve the root trauma first? And some trauma experts even say that once you solve the root trauma, en passant later traumas could be solved also

GD hormone therapy and surgery solves at best some symptoms, not the root cause

Michael Jackson comes to mind in this context

I think a major problem in GD is other people judging them. I don't judge you. If you want surgery, just do it, that's totally fine with me.

But I don't suggest to you to do surgery
I can't suggest it, if I don't believe it to be good
That's like asking an Atheist for blessings to become a Christian

I could suggest it, if I were 100% sure you were not going to regret it, but even then, I have to be omniscient.

So, I don't suggest anything. I tell them, listen to your heart, your conscience. You know what is best for you, others think they know. It's your life, your choice

But be aware, this choice is irreversible and could very well damage your organs, the experts say. And if you want proof, that is very, very easy to get.
"Ask your GD doktor, can you guarantee me, that I won't regret it, that I won't get organ damage, that it will solve the problems I have no". 100% sure, if he is no fraud, that he'll admit, that he can give you no guarantees.

 

[stvdv]

Money & demons, eh.
I don't believe in sky fairies or their adversaries.
Many horrible mutilations are done because of
religion, eg, genital mutilation of children.
Not for money.

Done for God.

I disagree

God never asked for it
Nor expressed gratitude

 

[stvdv]

That applies to abortions & sex transition too.

True

Abortions means to "kill" the unborn
If done after 4 month 9 days

Sex transition means to "kill" one gender, so the other gender hopefully can be happy

That's life ... Kill and be killed ... no one escapes

 

[stvdv]

For those of you reading along this thread, I want you to know that I'm not going to respond to mr. flame for the simple reason that he started his exchange with me by

lying about the nature of my posts.

Thank you for that

In my book, if you have to lie to further your argument, you probably don't have a very good argument.

True, and lying means avoiding the truth
Leading nowhere

Or their goal might be to critique
Just for the sake of critique

 

[We Never Know]

It seems we used to be told it wasnt normal but now we are being told born with male dna, male sex organs and a female brain is normal.

That's all I have to say about that.

 

[Argentbear]

Man, you have to learn to make finer distinctions. The organization you're misrepresenting (deliberately?), is saying that we have no way of knowing if a kid is transgender until they are adults.

strange because the criteria is exactly the same for a 15 year old and 20 year old

And the evidence is growing that protocols that pretend to know if a kid is transgender are wildly inaccurate.

any actual evidence to back this up? and by actual i mean something that doesn't come from an anti-trans web sight.

And given the severe medical side effects of using these protocols, we shouldn't be too quick to use them.

any actual evidence to back this up

So once again, what we're saying is no GAC for kids.

any reason not based on personal prejudice?

Adults can do what they want. And that's what the organization is saying.

And finally, this oft-repeated "you're denying their existence" nonsense is way past tired.

so is pretending that trans kids don't exist

 

[stvdv]

Hey, an honest post!

My thought too, I almost gave it a "winner"

The GAC propaganda would have us believe that we can eat our cake and have it too. We cannot. Hormones are dangerous and have irreversible side effects.

So IF, and it's a big, huge, gravel-hauling IF, we could find ways to make social transitioning, and puberty blockers and hormones all safe and reversible, you might have an argument in favor of GAC for kids.

But none of those interventions are safe or reversible.

Gender chicken egg problem:
1) Parents can have test tube babies. Some parents also desire to choose their baby's sex. I read that for an additional $60 you can choose the sex beforehand.
2) Some children desire to choose their sex, gender and what not

What a mess ... if we could just ask the unborn beforehand

If just Science :
could add the gender option, for just an additional $60 to have proper sex and gender, matched perfectly, and Gender Dysphoria is solved.

But till then we remain with this "chicken egg like" Gender Dysphoria Challenge

Another thought: This whole Universe is pretty amazing, and it's millions of years old. The human brain alone is still a mystery, of which Scientists have no clue

I think this Creation is perfect. The more humans mess with it the less pretty it gets.

A man doesn't like it when his wife tries to control him, it gets ugly before you know.

Maybe similar if humans try to control and mess with human creation. The more we try to control it, the messier it gets

 

[Argentbear]

That's simply not true. Man I wish I could earn $10 for every instance when I have indeed backed up my claims concerning WPARTH, on this forum.

So really dude, stop misrepresenting me and my posts. Stick to the topics at hand.

Not even 10cents

==

If you care so much about getting GAC to kids, you've been told enough times on this forum that WPATH is corrupt,

and again going to ask for actual evidence. And again you won't provide any

that it seems to me you owe it you yourself to do a little research. I know you're dug in here, but imagine discovering that you've been dead wrong. (Which I believe you are.) What this means is that you've been advocating for basically ruining confused kids' lives. And the same goes for understanding math and stats and medicine and the scientific process.

and here you are saying trans kids don't exist they are just "confused"