painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
I'll keep that in mind.
How do you know it was his "imagination"? How can you ever know what another human actually experiences?
wa:do
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
To defeat creationist, must you defeat their religion????
- Thread starter outhouse
- Start date
wa:do
Mercy Not Sacrifice
Well-Known Member
As I see this back-and-forth going on, I wonder if the evils committed in the name of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam have given religion an all-around bad name here in the West. I wonder what it would be like if "religion" typically meant much more benevolent practices, such as Buddhism, Wicca, Taoism, and even the very liberal forms of the Abrahamic religions?
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
You need a good visit to the 'east'. and witness and come to terms that all the major religions are involved in the same political affairs. Hindus against Muslims in decades old and more warfare, which has stretched into a nuclear arms race and stand off. systematic misogyny and women oppression by the Buddhist institutions across Asia. monks involved in gun corruption in east Asia. as for Taoism. it is completely unheard of in China. the vast majority of masses in China have no recollection of the Tao Te Ching, after the purging of the communist party of religion from the mainland. welcome to the real world, and real socities and political affairs. where all people are human beings, all are involved in shady business and all religious institutions are corrupt, as all other political movements. human nature, there is absolutely nothing wrong with admitting it, facing it, coming to terms with it. and still do decent business with all these variety of institutions or societies which support them.
Last edited:
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
I have seen thousands of post where qualified people have debated the creation myth with logic, reason, truth and reality.
The same creationist ignore, plagiarize and repost nonsence. they refuse to learn.
for 150 years science has let them and their myths play at a cost to the betterment of humanity.
I say enough is enough. Its time to go after the foundation in which they base all their beliefs on.
Evolution stands on its own, yet we have roughly a %60 belief in creation.
My take is if you cant make the horse drink, but its really easy to bring the water to them
Is it time in this modern world to expose the religious myths for what they are for the betterment of humanity???
Is most of this kind of reserved to the western world? I haven't really seen creationism or evolution at odds in other countries like here in America......
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
Rarely as media driven as here in the USA, but don''t worry... we are working hard to export it to other countries like Canada, UK and Australia.
Turkey is pretty active in it's own right... and even India has it's own brand of thriving creationists. There are also a few eastern European countries like Poland that have high level problems with creationists.
wa:do
outhouse
Atheistically
If your asking is this an american problem? then yes
I know in the western world only turkey is worse off but not by much
Oneatatime
Huh?
Many religious people have no problem with evolution and have actively taken part in protests against the teaching of creationism is schools in the US. The problem is the fundamentalist Christians who insist on reading the Bible literally. These people are generally considered to be backwards by the rest of Christianity and theologians.
outhouse
Atheistically
true and i understand that fully.
that doesnt change the fact we have a %60 belief in a myth here is the USA
To give you a idea haow bad it really is, there is a young guy at work who is not stupid and he thinks neanderthals and all other "cavemen" is just what happens when modern man lives outside to long. He is heavily influenced by religion. When this was brought up atleast half the people around claim man was created but when we just dont know.
most people who believes in creation only do so because of religious belief. this is a fact.
im not talking about your YeC but there is entirely to many of them as well.
Mercy Not Sacrifice
Well-Known Member
Hmm. True. Might it be possible that Abrahamic religions sometimes get singled out in the West? But if so, would that not give deference to outhouse's claim that all religion can be bad?
Eh, you're getting off into nihilism again. If this is just how humans operate, then what's the point of anyone's complaining about the evils in the world? We might as well accept the absurdity in life and not do anything about it.
outhouse
Atheistically
I have stated not all religions are bad, I think they are all myths but thats my opinion.
I do have a problem with Abrahamic religions because of the way the christians jacked it up by changing allegircally read material into literal words.
I mean really genesis has to embarrass hebrews because they lose credibility because of its mythical nature, it sets the tone for the rest of the book. you get into the NT and the mythical nature is still on full throttle.
My main gripe is genesis is obvious fiction, its time the world knows its not, nor was it ever ment to be read as a literal truth. It is not the divine word of god nor has it ever been. It is the words of ancient hebrews who knew nothing of the world around them. The only reason genesis isnt tore down is because it makes it more obvious man created the god figure
in my opinion
I do have a problem with Abrahamic religions because of the way the christians jacked it up by changing allegircally read material into literal words.
I mean really genesis has to embarrass hebrews because they lose credibility because of its mythical nature, it sets the tone for the rest of the book. you get into the NT and the mythical nature is still on full throttle.
My main gripe is genesis is obvious fiction, its time the world knows its not, nor was it ever ment to be read as a literal truth. It is not the divine word of god nor has it ever been. It is the words of ancient hebrews who knew nothing of the world around them. The only reason genesis isnt tore down is because it makes it more obvious man created the god figure
in my opinion
outhouse
Atheistically
we know ancient hebrews created god in my opinion and this god was supposed to created the universe as well?
the bible states
he created the stars in 1 day we know that is a lie
he created man in 1 day we know that is a lie
he created all the plants in a day another lie
he created woman from a rib is a lie
he created animals in 1 day is another lie
the same language before the tower of babel is a lie
he created the global flood is lie
this is the tip of the iceberg of all the lies the bible tells
so with all those blatant lies about things god created YOU with a straight face are going to tell me you think this myth created the whole universe???? :slap:
you lie to your friends and ill lie to mine but lets not lie to each other because of a 3000 year old sheep herders myth/guide for primitive people
the bible states
he created the stars in 1 day we know that is a lie
he created man in 1 day we know that is a lie
he created all the plants in a day another lie
he created woman from a rib is a lie
he created animals in 1 day is another lie
the same language before the tower of babel is a lie
he created the global flood is lie
this is the tip of the iceberg of all the lies the bible tells
so with all those blatant lies about things god created YOU with a straight face are going to tell me you think this myth created the whole universe???? :slap:
you lie to your friends and ill lie to mine but lets not lie to each other because of a 3000 year old sheep herders myth/guide for primitive people
outhouse
Atheistically
abrahamic really but its just the creation myth that gets me.
I dont know much about the others to say anything positive or negative about. I studied buda for a bit. That seemed ok. I couldnt get into it though.
I have stated many times im not against religion as a whole as long as the myths stay away from science and the classroom
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
This is where you guys and myself part ways.
Why would you hold religions to different standard?
religions are promoting exactly what political parties and governments are promoting.
there are no saints and ogres in this game. just people struggling to stay at the top of the game.
The male Buddhist institutions will always reign supreme over the female monastic life. The Buddha himself had serious doubt to the very idea of ordaining women as Buddhist tradition documents to us. after he was willing to give the idea a go after long persuasion. one of the first things he has done was outlining to women who desire to join a monastic lifestyle 8 rules they are obligated to follow, the first one is near absolute confinement of a woman to submission.
Many say that Tibet itself was run by a very misogynistic Lama priesthood. this has all changed when the Chinese overrun the country, and the Dalai Lama, the current one fled the country with his entourage.
The most dominating political movement in India, is Hindu Nationalism. and the results for regions such as Kashmir, its Muslims, and Hindus, are widely debated in India and in the region.
Its all politics. I am not sure what spirituality or lofty ideals people are after.
all an independent nation needs. is a strong and capable military strength. secured resources, secured territory. and the freedom to use all of these. if they have a religion to inspire them with more fighting spirit. well we already know the terrifying results of that.
In the past few decades, we have seen the Afghan Mujahideen defeating the mighty Russian or rather Soviet at the time, rusted war machine, all the time using the most basic weapons.
We have seen a Buddhist majority nation defeating the Tamil rebels (mostly ranked by Hindus) in one of the most long standing civil wars in modern history. furthermore, we have seen Buddhist monks in Sri Lanka promoting a strong nationalistic group that advocated more extreme measures and military solutions to the civil war with the Hindu Tamils in their nation.
I can also touch the ethnic cleansing of Christians by Buddhists in east Asia. but I think you understand by now how I see religions and their role in their world. it has all to do with political security, and political and social struggles and challenges. and zero or complete lack of easy escape to the western misconception of spirituality. this is the world we are living in. no Buddha is going to lift anyone up in the palm of his hand to a Zen garden to take a break from it all, while enjoying a nice cup of hot green tea with them, explaining to them how beautiful and calming life and the universe really are. and all that is happening in the news around them, is a nice soap opera in far far away lands.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Nihilism is the refusal to come to terms with the political and social orders, the political and social challenges and debate them as adults. instead of pretending that we should not engage them and pretend we have a 60's outdated philosophy to take them on.
Last edited:
I actually agree with you. I also believe that the Biblical creation story was meant to be taken allegorically. And I don't understand how an intelligent person could believe that a literal explanation of the birth of the universe could be written in a few words.
So yes, I wish that people would stop taking the stories literally.
Oneatatime
Huh?
true and i understand that fully.
that doesnt change the fact we have a %60 belief in a myth here is the USA
To give you a idea haow bad it really is, there is a young guy at work who is not stupid and he thinks neanderthals and all other "cavemen" is just what happens when modern man lives outside to long. He is heavily influenced by religion. When this was brought up atleast half the people around claim man was created but when we just dont know.
most people who believes in creation only do so because of religious belief. this is a fact.
im not talking about your YeC but there is entirely to many of them as well.
Britain has a fair few religious people with Christians making up the majority of those yet creationists are a minority which are considered something of an embarressment by most religious people.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Wow, that's kind of shocking.
My four year old doesn't know anything at all about Jesus, and only a small bit about God. What does he or she say about Jesus and God? "Jesus is the son of God" and so on?
If so, what do you say to him or her about them?
ellenjanuary
Well-Known Member
To defeat creationist, you must... kill 'em all!
May seem like not the kind of thing to be joking about, but seriously, if you don't laugh, you're gonna cry. But there ain't no religion to creationism; not in the sense that it comes out of the Bible, not in the sense that it is Christian or Muslim. That's the problem with morality and religion. The religious claim all the right of morality, and none of the responsibility. Should it not be the responsibility of the mainstream to keep the sect in line?
May seem like not the kind of thing to be joking about, but seriously, if you don't laugh, you're gonna cry. But there ain't no religion to creationism; not in the sense that it comes out of the Bible, not in the sense that it is Christian or Muslim. That's the problem with morality and religion. The religious claim all the right of morality, and none of the responsibility. Should it not be the responsibility of the mainstream to keep the sect in line?