To kill or not to kill

[Pardus]

Nothing personal J, but i have to say i generally lay the blame on the parents in those situations.

 

[ChrisP]

My son is one of those people that breaks into people's houses to support his crystal meth habit. He can go months without falling back. He's out on bail right now, been clean for a few months, but last week 'disappeared' which tells me he's back doing meth. I'm afraid one of these days he's going to end up shot dead. He usually breaks into homes when people are gone, but has 'mis-calculated' b4.

It makes me sad to hear this. I had a "meth" habit for 2 years. It's called "P" here (for Pure), and I understand why it's important to him.

Be patient and he'll realise it's not (important). With any drug, intervening only lets the user know who to avoid in future.

My heart goes out to you, as I understand why you fear for him. If I was still a prayer, I would pray for your son. There have been many people I have known, friends and associates alike, killed or maimed because of that crap.

 

[ChrisP]

Nothing personal J, but i have to say i generally lay the blame on the parents in those situations.

I have to disagree Pardus.

My parents tried everything anyone has ever thought of. None of it worked.

It comes down to the user making up their own mind.

 

[Pardus]

Well i'm not changing my mind, tho i do believe the current social focus on producing money has made it difficult for parents to put time aside for their kids, it's still their responsibility.

 

[ChrisP]

Well i'm not changing my mind, tho i do believe the current social focus on producing money has made it difficult for parents to put time aside for their kids, it's still their responsibility.

Yes it is there responsibility to educate their children. You can do your best and still not get the message across.

 

[jeffrey]

I have 2 kids from my 1st marriage that turned out exact opposites. Raised the same. I think it's to easy to blame others for your own bad choices. I, too had a drug problem 30 years ago, raised in a wonderful home by a wonderful mother. People should stop blaming others for their own mistakes and take responseability for their own shortcomings.

 

[ChrisP]

I have 2 kids from my 1st marriage that turned out exact opposites. Raised the same. I think it's to easy to blame others for your own bad choices. I, too had a drug problem 30 years ago, raised in a wonderful home by a wonderful mother. People should stop blaming others for their own mistakes and take responseability for their own shortcomings.

I agree completely. If you consider yourself to fall short of where you'd like to be, it is your responsibility to sort it out. Thats why we have such an emphasis on individual's rights in the modern age. It promotes personal responsibility, while allowing the freedom to make choices.

Living with the choices is a consequence.

 

[jeffrey]

^Very well said.

 

[Circle_One]

No, I did understand you (I guess I explained myself badly) what I meant was that my 'logical' self would say 'run' , but my emotional self might well want to fight. But, overall, I think the 'fight' is wrong.

I admire you for your principles, but I don't see myself adopding them (unless my temper gets the better of me )

I can see where you're coming from. I think, for the most part, the "logical" side of the majority people would tell them to run. It's your typical 'fight or flight' reaction, where most unwillingly or unconsciously choose flight without a second thought. I think it's the body's natural reaction, the fight part only coming in when someone stops to think about it first. I, however, know I am the other way. I've been in situations where my fight or flight reaction has kicked in and my body has always chosen fight.

Besides all that, I know my feelings and principles regarding situations such as this are not for everyone. I even agree that it's somewhat silly to stay and fight (though, I would do it), as the situation could so easily turn around in favor of the intruder. I think I would even suggest for most people to flee, though I could never run myself.

 

[michel]

I can see where you're coming from. I think, for the most part, the "logical" side of the majority people would tell them to run. It's your typical 'fight or flight' reaction, where most unwillingly or unconsciously choose flight without a second thought. I think it's the body's natural reaction, the fight part only coming in when someone stops to think about it first. I, however, know I am the other way. I've been in situations where my fight or flight reaction has kicked in and my body has always chosen fight.

Besides all that, I know my feelings and principles regarding situations such as this are not for everyone. I even agree that it's somewhat silly to stay and fight (though, I would do it), as the situation could so easily turn around in favor of the intruder. I think I would even suggest for most people to flee, though I could never run myself.

I'm so sorry; it sounds as if you have suffered at some time, and I didn't mean to stir up bad memories.

 

[jamaesi]

This has actually happened to me. There is a small handgun in my house and one day when I came home there was someone upstairs.


... And what I did was grab my cockatoo and run with my mother to the neighbor's house to call the police. I care more about protecting my family than getting 'revenge.'


As my brother-in-law is a police officer we had every car on duty, including his, and my sister who heard it over the police radio race at my house in less than 40 seconds. The person got away, though. D:

 

[Circle_One]

I'm so sorry; it sounds as if you have suffered at some time, and I didn't mean to stir up bad memories.

No, no Michel, no apologies necessary, really. You've stirred up nothing. Yeah, I've been through a lot of bad situations in my life, but I've come out of them all stronger for it, and they've made me the woman I am today, so please, don't apologize.

Though, I must say, right now I'm suffering at the hands (or paws) of two of my cats sneakily trying to eat my food while I'm typing. Buggers

 

[ChrisP]

I can see where you're coming from. I think, for the most part, the "logical" side of the majority people would tell them to run. It's your typical 'fight or flight' reaction, where most unwillingly or unconsciously choose flight without a second thought. I think it's the body's natural reaction, the fight part only coming in when someone stops to think about it first. I, however, know I am the other way. I've been in situations where my fight or flight reaction has kicked in and my body has always chosen fight.

Besides all that, I know my feelings and principles regarding situations such as this are not for everyone. I even agree that it's somewhat silly to stay and fight (though, I would do it), as the situation could so easily turn around in favor of the intruder. I think I would even suggest for most people to flee, though I could never run myself.

I understand what you are saying, regarding fight/flight. I believe the logical decision is to flee.

Logic has very little to do with reality however.

I would rather die fighting than live cowering.

 

[Circle_One]

I understand what you are saying, regarding fight/flight. I believe the logical decision is to flee.

Logic has very little to do with reality however.

I would rather die fighting than live cowering.

We are in complete agreeance here.

It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

 

[Snowbear]

ISo in this scenario, I wouldn't run but would rather maim him to 1) show him he broke into the wrong house, 2) make him reconsider his career, 3) make myself feel better, 4) have a good story to tell at the next party I go to, 5) keep my stuff safe since I've worked many hours to afford what I own. Then I'd probably beat him unconscious.

And probably get sued in civil court for some dummass thing like "wrongful harming" or "excessive force" and the victim would be awarded punitive damage in the gazillions of dollars for "pain and suffering." Or it being CA, if s/he got arrested, the state could sue you for medical care since you were the one who caused the damage to her or his person. For the relatively short time I lived in CA, I realized it would be a much better option to make sure the attacker was:

1 - inside the door when I dispatched him/her (to avaoid the above-mentioned issue of the possibly not actually being in fear of my safetly or my life since the badguy had not actually entered my house yet )

2 - in a condition where he could never bring charges against me. aka dead.

Although the precedent in AK is much more amenable to the defender of life and property, I would still rather the dogs deterred the potential intruder by sounding big and mean.

On the other hand, if someone was actually a major threat to me and I could not escape, I would use any means to protect myself. I am not afraid to die at all, but experience has taught me that killing me is not the worst thing someone could do to me

 

[jeffrey]

I had a cop in Arkansas tell me once, if he's fleeing from your property and you shoot him, best to drag him back onto your property after you've shot him.

 

[ChrisP]

I had a cop in Arkansas tell me once, if he's fleeing from your property and you shoot him, best to drag him back onto your property after you've shot him.

Duly Noted. If I'm ever in Arkansas. . .

 

[gnomon]

In repsonse to this response I would tell you that the chance of a federal or local law enforcement officer entering your home unanounced in conjuntion with his civil duties is pretty much nil.

For starters they have to have a warrent or see a crime in progress to enter at all. Secondly, when executing a warrent they go in pairs or more and it is usually an organized raid as opposed to "popping in" on someone. It is not like they are passing the crack house on the corner and think..hey today seems like a good day to....

They also knock and announce police or warrent unless it is a "high risk warrent' which means a person with a history of violence or drug trafficing.

However, if on the small chance they do somehow not announce and enter my understanding is by law you have the right to self-defense until such time they identify themselves. I had a friend who was in a garage band. She was performing one night and plain-clothed officers came on stage to "break up the noise" of the outdoor concert. She turned thinking she was being accosted because the officer grabbed before announcing himself, and smashed the electric guitar across the officer's face breaking his jaw.

The officer, who was not in the arrest after being downed, pressed charges but they were thrown out of court because he failed to identify himself before grabbing her. In theory (as opposed to practice) an officer is not permitted to make an arrest without announcing his position as a law enforcement officer. However he is not obligated to tell you what you are being charged with, arrest for or why you are being arrested at all. They do have to inform you in 24 hours I believe.

Because of the checks and balances, and potential for harmful civil suits I think you are really going to be hardpressed to find instances in the news where officers enter your home unannounced.

No-knock warrants are still used. Innocent people have been killed in their homes due to these raids. Sometimes the victim responded to the raid with a weapon in hand. Other times not. These raids are considered legal and not a violation of the right to privacy. Lawsuits have been placed and some won over these tactics.

It depends on what exactly police are investigating as to whether or not a no-knock warrant is needed. Public disturbance is not one of these. Drug related investigations are one.

 

[retrorich]

Your in your home, Alone, asleep. You have a gun, loaded, in your dresser. You hear a noise in your house. Someone rummaging through your home. You have a choice. Confront the burgler, possibly having to shoot him. Or climb out your window and flee. What choice would you make?

I would :

1. Immediately call the police or 911 on my cell phone.
2. Quietly close the door to the room I am in and lock it, if it had a lock.
3. Crouch down and keep the gun aimed at the door.
4. If an attempt to open the door were made, I would fire a shot at the door at a point behind which the intruder would most likely be standing.
5. Repeat step 4 as often as necessary until the gun ran out of bullets. (It would be a good idea to have a supply of additional bullets on hand.)

If I were not alone in the home, the situation would be much more complicated, of course. But the question specified being alone.

This is only a hypothetical plan with me, since I do not own a gun and have no plans to obtain one.

While I am opposed to unnecessary killing--I have no problem with self-protection. I would use a gun to protect my life (or my family), but not to protect my posessions.

 

[ChrisP]

I would :

1. Immediately call the police or 911 on my cell phone.
2. Quietly close the door to the room I am in and lock it, if it had a lock.
3. Crouch down and keep the gun aimed at the door.
4. If an attempt to open the door were made, I would fire a shot at the door at a point behind which the intruder would most likely be standing.
5. Repeat step 4 as often as necessary until the gun ran out of bullets. (It would be a good idea to have a supply of additional bullets on hand.)

If I were not alone in the home, the situation would be much more complicated, of course. But the question specified being alone.

This is only a hypothetical plan with me, since I do not own a gun and have no plans to obtain one.

While I am opposed to unnecessary killing--I have no problem with self-protection. I would use a gun to protect my life (or my family), but not to protect my posessions.

5 steps to a safer home