To Punish, or Not to Punish

[The Hammer]

Should You Punish Bad Behavior? The Answer May Surprise You

"Though it’s counterintuitive, when guilt is used to punish oneself or inflicted on other people to control them, it is not effective if the goal is to improve behavior. Furthermore, excessive guilt and punishment can activate shame and destructive or self-destructive impulses, igniting prohibited behaviors."

Punishment, Shame, and Guilt do not create positive lasting changes in people and their behaviours. Consequences are natural, punishment/shaming is only meant to "even the score".

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I'm a stay-at-home mother of multiple aged children, and during all the years raising them, my husband and I never spanked them, to the absolute disapproval of my Christian in-laws and other Christians in our church. My husband and I were criticized and berated by other Christians for "sparing the rod," and we were repeatedly told that our children would be uncontrollable and they would grow up rebellious and turn against God. Well, all the doom and gloom predictions of not physically hitting my children in order to discipline them never came to pass. My children aren't, by any means, perfect, but they're good kids who are compassionate and hard-working young people. They respect my husband and me, as well as each other and other people. They're also spiritual and go to church when they can. I grew up in an extremely abusive home, and I was dead-determined not to be abusive like that towards my own children.

My husband and I had a long discussion about how to discipline our oldest son (now 28) when he was a toddler. We decided that we'd use positive reinforcement instead of spanking him to change his behavior. We continued to use positive reinforcement to teach our children while they were growing up. We still use it on occasion with our teenage daughters and sometimes with our older children, who are young adults. We remind our kids that we respect each other and that we need to listen to each other without getting angry. It works every time. I don't care what the Bible says about "sparing the rod," because my family is living proof that that's hogwash.

 

[Aštra’el]

Different parents have different parenting tactics. Whatever works, works. Of course, I lean heavily towards punishing unacceptable behavior. Its how I was raised, and I see tremendous value in the examples set by those who raised me.

One of the things I respect most about so many of the Latina mothers (and grandmothers) I knew growing up is that they didn’t take **** from nobody, not even their own children. Even today, their children’s children must be taught The Way. Behold, their most fearsome and effective weapon:

Spoiler

 

[Aštra’el]

Spoiler

So yes. To punish.

 

[The Hammer]

Spoiler

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So yes. To punish.

I'll continue to follow the research that says not to.

 

[The Hammer]

Different parents have different parenting tactics. Whatever works, works. Of course, I lean heavily towards punishing unacceptable behavior. Its how I was raised, and I see tremendous value the examples set by those who raised me.

One of the things I respect most about so many of the Latina mothers (and grandmothers) I knew growing up is that they didn’t take **** from nobody, not even their own children. Even today, their children’s children must be taught The Way. Behold, their most fearsome and effective weapon:

Spoiler

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No one's afraid of the Chancla, come on. It's a sandal.

 

[Heyo]

Different parents have different parenting tactics. Whatever works, works. Of course, I lean heavily towards punishing unacceptable behavior. Its how I was raised, and I see tremendous value in the examples set by those who raised me.

Examples are good. You are a good example why punishment leads to bad outcomes.

 

[ChristineM]

I'm a stay-at-home mother of multiple aged children, and during all the years raising them, my husband and I never spanked them, to the absolute disapproval of my Christian in-laws and other Christians in our church. My husband and I were criticized and berated by other Christians for "sparing the rod," and we were repeatedly told that our children would be uncontrollable and they would grow up rebellious and turn against God. Well, all the doom and gloom predictions of not physically hitting my children in order to discipline them never came to pass. My children aren't, by any means, perfect, but they're good kids who are compassionate and hard-working young people. They respect my husband and me, as well as each other and other people. They're also spiritual and go to church when they can. I grew up in an extremely abusive home, and I was dead-determined not to be abusive like that towards my own children.

My husband and I had a long discussion about how to discipline our oldest son (now 28) when he was a toddler. We decided that we'd use positive reinforcement instead of spanking him to change his behavior. We continued to use positive reinforcement to teach our children while they were growing up. We still use it on occasion with our teenage daughters and sometimes with our older children, who are young adults. We remind our kids that we respect each other and that we need to listen to each other without getting angry. It works every time. I don't care what the Bible says about "sparing the rod," because my family is living proof that that's hogwash.

^^^^ Pretty much this ^^^^

Without suffering childhood abuse​

 

[VoidCat]

No one's afraid of the Chancla, come on. It's a sandal.

I get this is probably a joke but I can't tell if it is so if it's not
I don't know I get bad anxiety when I pick up a wooden spoon. And there are no leather belts in my room... So some folk might fear the chancla
Then again I was abused to the point that even those who advocate for spanking would be horrified.

 

[Kenny]

Should You Punish Bad Behavior? The Answer May Surprise You

"Though it’s counterintuitive, when guilt is used to punish oneself or inflicted on other people to control them, it is not effective if the goal is to improve behavior. Furthermore, excessive guilt and punishment can activate shame and destructive or self-destructive impulses, igniting prohibited behaviors."

Punishment, Shame, and Guilt do not create positive lasting changes in people and their behaviours. Consequences are natural, punishment/shaming is only meant to "even the score".

IMV the key is in the implementation. I wholeheartedly agree that "excessive" is bad and "guilt" is bad. Even "shaming" is bad.

If correction contains "love" it will work.

The "rod" is not the answer but it can be a tool. IMV. Overused and it is irrelevant. Used in anger and it creates a mess. My rod was a little paddle that used to have a ball on it with a rubber band.

It was only used in extreme cases to teach that there are natural consequences to wrong actions. Ultimately, the swat that I give is with love but the swat that the prison guard gives if life's wrong decision will bring will be without love but in anger and revenge.

Our method, which also worked, went along these lines, in complete control and lots of love:

"Son, you know that lying is not acceptable in our home. If you tell me the truth then the potential of grace with no paddle is there. But since you lied, you get two swats, one for lying and one for what you did wrong in the first place". (Lying was a sure swat)

We always used the word of God as we believe the word of God is the answer and not the paddle.

After administration of correction, we would pray together, ask forgiveness and leave with no remembrance of what was done wrong and coming out in full communion. No, "You are punished for three days" - as that translates into anger for three days. And no "This is the fifth time," (an expression of anger)

 

[The Hammer]

If correction contains "love" it will work.

"Son, you know that lying is not acceptable in our home. If you tell me the truth then the potential of grace with no paddle is there. But since you lied, you get two swats, one for lying and one for what you did wrong in the first place". (Lying was a sure swat)

Many an abuser justifies what they do the exact same way.

Son it's ok that I hit you, it's out of love, and you didn't listen the first time

Which can eventually turn into them thinking hitting out of love is ok.

I know I hit my wife, but she didn't listen the first time, I love her

"The abuse of spanking isn’t just in the act of hitting a child. In fact, perhaps the most abusive and damaging aspect of spanking is in the way it teaches children that someone can hurt you like that, and it can be rightly called love."

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/sarahoverthemoon/2014/04/what-you-teach-your-kids-when-you-hit-them/

 

[VoidCat]

Many an abuser justifies what they do the exact same way.

Son it's ok that I hit you, it's out of love, and you didn't listen the first time

Which can eventually turn into them thinking hitting out of love is ok.

I know I hit my wife, but she didn't listen the first time, I love her

"The abuse of spanking isn’t just in the act of hitting a child. In fact, perhaps the most abusive and damaging aspect of spanking is in the way it teaches children that someone can hurt you like that, and it can be rightly called love."

What You Teach Your Kids When You Hit Them

Reminds me of the phrase uttered by many when they spank their children: This will hurt me more then it hurts you

Which I find to be bull

 

[Debater Slayer]

Different parents have different parenting tactics. Whatever works, works. Of course, I lean heavily towards punishing unacceptable behavior. Its how I was raised, and I see tremendous value in the examples set by those who raised me.

One of the things I respect most about so many of the Latina mothers (and grandmothers) I knew growing up is that they didn’t take **** from nobody, not even their own children. Even today, their children’s children must be taught The Way. Behold, their most fearsome and effective weapon:

Spoiler

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View attachment 63626

Research and expert findings take precedence over ideologically charged anecdotes and emotionally undisciplined lashing out at children every time.

 

[Kenny]

Many an abuser justifies what they do the exact same way.

Son it's ok that I hit you, it's out of love, and you didn't listen the first time

Which can eventually turn into them thinking hitting out of love is ok.

I know I hit my wife, but she didn't listen the first time, I love her

"The abuse of spanking isn’t just in the act of hitting a child. In fact, perhaps the most abusive and damaging aspect of spanking is in the way it teaches children that someone can hurt you like that, and it can be rightly called love."

So TRUE!!

That is why I listed a qualifier of love. Abuse is not love. And you don't need to hit to abuse. Wrong and abusive words are just as bad if not worse.

However, constructive criticism is a love language. IMV

If I were a foster parent of an abused child, I would never use the paddle. Not even a straw. It would require a different approach.

On the other end of the spectrum are children who have never experienced consequences and the result is a spoiled child. We've seen that just about everywhere today IMV

 

[Aštra’el]

In fact, perhaps the most abusive and damaging aspect of spanking is in the way it teaches children that someone can hurt you like that, and it can be rightly called love."

What You Teach Your Kids When You Hit Them

I have to disagree. Corporal punishment is not always cruel and abusive, and in many families it is definitely something done out of love. Even if it is tough love. Some people will never understand this, and that is fine.

 

[VoidCat]

If I were a foster parent of an abused child, I would never use the paddle. Not even a straw. It would require a different approach.

On the other end of the spectrum are children who have never experienced consequences and the result is a spoiled child. We've seen that just about everywhere today IMV

You can have a child experience consequences without spanking them. You know this else you wouldn't have put that with an abused child you'd have a different approach

 

[Kenny]

You can have a child experience consequences without spanking them. You know this else you wouldn't have put that with an abused child you'd have a different approach

Yes... I believe that is quite possible. There are pros and cons to every method. A spoiled child never was spanked is the con to absolutely no spanking.

I think of it this way... my child is putting a paper clip in an electrical socket. Do I just use positive reinforcement in "hopes" that he doesn't try that again? Or would a little reinforcement of pain accentuate the issue to the point that he would never try it again.

 

[VoidCat]

Yes... I believe that is quite possible. There are pros and cons to every method. A spoiled child never was spanked is the con to absolutely no spanking.

I think of it this way... my child is putting a paper clip in an electrical socket. Do I just use positive reinforcement in "hopes" that he doesn't try that again? Or would a little reinforcement of pain accentuate the issue to the point that he would never try it again.

Or...you could move the kid and talk to them about the issue. Even toddlers understand No.

 

[VoidCat]

Speaking of spanking guys...heres a comedy video. It's not realistic clearly the parents are abusive and it's satire I personally only find it mildly funny mostly tragic but I know people who find it really funny the video so im posting it making an attempt at adding humor

 

[Kenny]

Or...you could move the kid and talk to them about the issue. Even toddlers understand No.

Hopefully. My daughter might have tried it again (she was the tiger in our tank) - I think the risk of her doing it again vs the reinforcement was important.

Obviously, I could be wrong but she certainly has no "bad memories" of our love correction.