To the dead and/or living

[Unveiled Artist]

I was thinking, while practicing Nichiren Buddhism, that there is a lot of emphasis on Soku Ikeda. Then I thought, when I was a part of the Church, there is a lot of emphasis on the Pope (especially nowadays). While many other faiths put reverence or worship to people who have already passed (say the Buddha and Nichiren themselves, Jesus, Muhammad, Bahaullah, Jospeh Smith, Prophets, Saints, and more)

The religious (or those who walk with a spiritual practice, if you like):

Q: Why is it that some of us put more emphasis on people who have passed in regards to our spirituality rather than the people who are still alive?

Q: If Jesus were here today, would you worship Him? Fall down your knees and kiss his feet? Or would you talk to Him as a friend as His disciples did?

Q. If you meet the Buddha, how would you approach Him? I am not one to gravel on my knees to someone living; but, I do have very high respect for The Buddha. I also do so for Nichiren Shonin. However, that is not worship.

Speaking to the non-religions (or however you identify):

Q: Without descrediting any person, one's faith, or worldview, what is your opinion about why the religious put more emphasis on those who passed compared to those living?

Q: If you know anything about Soku Ikeda and the current Pope, without descrediting them and their faith, do you see their followers as worshiping these two individuals?

Nam.

 

[allfoak]

Matthew 23:8
"But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.
New International Version

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Matthew 23:8
"But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.
New International Version

Please relate this post to what I said. I don't want to make assumptions of what this verse is referring to and why.

 

[Aupmanyav]

1. The people who have passed away and their views have survived, must have said something very wise.I am very reticent to accept people who are still living. My gurus are Sankara and Buddha. Long dead but with philosophies which still are strong.
2. I would not have anything to talk with Jesus/Mohammad with their exclusivist views. Bahai, though poses to be inclusive but makes it necessary to accept Bahaullah as 'manifestation' of God which will not be repeated for at least 800 years. I am an advaitist atheist, I do not accept existence of any God and consider everything to be manifestation of Brahman, not just Bahaullah, even Osama and Caliph Ibrahim.
3. I will have no problem in laying down at his feet leaving behind all ego, though I differ with him on some points.
4. The revealed religions are cults, therefore they worship/honor people who started them. Non-revealed religions are based on analysis/discussions.
5. Don't know about Soku Ikeda, current Pope is highly revered by his sect and liked by many Christians.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

1. The people who have passed away and their views have survived, must have said something very wise.I am very reticent to accept people who are still living. My gurus are Sankara and Buddha. Long dead but with philosophies which still are strong.
2. I would not have anything to talk with Jesus/Mohammad with their exclusivist views. Bahai, though poses to be inclusive but makes it necessary to accept Bahaullah as 'manifestation' of God which will not be repeated for at least 800 years. I am an advaitist atheist, I do not accept existence of any God and consider everything to be manifestation of Brahman, not just Bahaullah, even Osama and Caliph Ibrahim.
3. I will have no problem in laying down at his feet leaving behind all ego, though I differ with him on some points.
4. The revealed religions are cults, therefore they worship/honor people who started them. Non-revealed religions are based on analysis/discussions.
5. Don't know about Soku Ikeda, current Pope is highly revered by his sect and liked by many Christians.

Why are you reticient to accept people that are still living? If the dead and the living are both humans, would it be possible that the living would still have the same or like wisdom that one would consider worth revereing as we do to those who have passed centuries ago?

 

[morphesium]

I was thinking, while practicing Nichiren Buddhism, that there is a lot of emphasis on Soku Ikeda. Then I thought, when I was a part of the Church, there is a lot of emphasis on the Pope (especially nowadays). While many other faiths put reverence or worship to people who have already passed (say the Buddha and Nichiren themselves, Jesus, Muhammad, Bahaullah, Jospeh Smith, Prophets, Saints, and more)

The religious (or those who walk with a spiritual practice, if you like):
Q: Why is it that some of us put more emphasis on people who have passed in regards to our spirituality rather than the people who are still alive?

I am an atheist and so answering from this perspective.

1. They are dead - and they won't make any more mistakes.
2. Tell something they didn't say for your sake and they won't come and argue with you. Super, magical attributes, etc everything sells here.
3. Moreover, you can put more "divinity" in someone who has passed away than someone who is still living - you can't disprove it .

Q: If Jesus were here today, would you worship Him? Fall down your knees and kiss his feet? Or would you talk to Him as a friend as His disciples did?

Even if i happened to be a believer ,one/we many not even accept him as Jesus. We will just see him as an ordinary man (which he is actually). Even if someone invents a time machine and goes to the time of Jesus, the things really happened there would be entirely different that what we believe. I don't accept to see anything more than a normal human being and the chances are that he may not have even played a part in the formation of Christianity..

Q. If you meet the Buddha, how would you approach Him? I am not one to gravel on my knees to someone living; but, I do have very high respect for The Buddha. I also do so for Nichiren Shonin. However, that is not worship.

For me, he is a great philosopher and I too have high respect for The Buddha. Something like if i happened to meet Sir. Issac newton, Abraham Lincoln, Einstein, Mahatma Gandhi, Epicurus etc.

Q: Without descrediting any person, one's faith, or worldview, what is your opinion about why the religious put more emphasis on those who passed compared to those living?

1,2, 3,.... When you want to sell something based on faith, it is better to show someone who has passed compared to those living. To quote an example that is happening at the remote corner of the world than what is at the front of them.

Q: If you know anything about Soku Ikeda and the current Pope, without descrediting them and their faith, do you see their followers as worshiping these two individuals?

Nam.

Some followers will and some others won't see them as some one to be worshiped and for someone else everything in between.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why are you reticient to accept people that are still living? If the dead and the living are both humans, would it be possible that the living would still have the same or like wisdom that one would consider worth revereing as we do to those who have passed centuries ago?

The big question is whether they are charlatans. Charlatans talk very sweet. But, yes, there are a few living people whom I respect, though they perhaps not have the same view as I have. Here are a few people whom I respect:

Swami Avadheshananda, Swami Chidananda

 

[allfoak]

Yes Carlita, I would be happy to explain further.

As an atheist i would think you would see the worship of another human being as foolishness.
I would agree with that assessment, yet i am not an atheist.

All of my attention goes to what the average person calls a conscience.
I call it my soul-self.
My primary focus is to know myself.

Gospel of Thomas

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The big question is whether they are charlatans. Charlatans talk very sweet. But, yes, there are a few living people whom I respect, though they perhaps not have the same view as I have. This is one person whom I respect:

Swami Avadheshananda

Im not familar with this gentleman. Who is he and his role?

I know personally I would have high respect to all the religious living. I have more reverence towards those who are not adored publically. Shows humility, in my view. Especially those living a monastic or devotional life. Anyone who takes up a vocation or even Muslims I respect because of their discipline in practice.

As for one person, thats scatchy. I revere the Buddha and he was a person too. Im sure life/death shouldnt matter in how and who we revere given life doesnt end in death. Rebirth.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes Carlita, I would be happy to explain further.

As an atheist i would think you would see the worship of another human being as foolishness.
I would agree with that assessment, yet i am not an atheist.

All of my attention goes to what the average person calls a conscience.
I call it my soul-self.
My primary focus is to know myself.

Gospel of Thomas

Im not familar with the word conscious. Its used often. Im a Buddhist so we'd call it Buddhanature (Mehayana). In my sect its the Mystic Law. However, its pretty simple. The Law of Causality. Yet, the Buddha says its difficult to understand. Double edge sword.

You are right, though. Id think it somewhat foolish to worship any person living or not. I "worship" the Buddha as in our nature. We give offerings to our nature rather than alms to the Buddha statue. So its quite different. In Buddhas day, people offered alms, called him Lord, etc. I dont know if I could do that. But I wouldnt call him dude.

 

[allfoak]

I would definitely call him dude!
In other words, i would talk to him like a friend.

Causality...
No offense to the Buddha, but causality is not so hard to understand.
Everyone is born under different laws because every soul is different with different experiences.
Here is the tricky part.
You reap what you sow because there is one law and one source of the law.
So while we are the cause of all things that happens to us, these laws are put into effect by the source of the laws and we have no choice but to live out the consequences of our actions, good or bad.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Swami Avadheshananda Giri is the Chief (Mahamandaleshwar) of "June Akhara" (Old Order), one of the ten ascetic orders established by Sankara. His sermons are most wonderful to listen, he has complete control over language. Sankara's views are theistic as well as atheistic, somewhat like mine, because we accept existence of Brahman. I have stronger atheistic views than other 'advaitists'. Here is some information about 'Juna Akhara' by someone lower down in position: http://rampuri.com/about-baba-rampuri/juna-akhara/

Closest to my views was Swami Adgadananda, but he is no more. I also like the theist Kripalu Mahara, he also is no more.

 

[arthra]

I was thinking, while practicing Nichiren Buddhism, that there is a lot of emphasis on Soku Ikeda. Then I thought, when I was a part of the Church, there is a lot of emphasis on the Pope (especially nowadays). While many other faiths put reverence or worship to people who have already passed (say the Buddha and Nichiren themselves, Jesus, Muhammad, Bahaullah, Jospeh Smith, Prophets, Saints, and more)

Carlita...

Being a Baha'i I accept Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah as Manifestations of God... They had unique characteristics and with stood ignorance and prejudice...

You can read a good synopsis in my opinion of the Baha’i concept “Manifestation of God” at

http://bahai-library.com/books/quest/quest.06.html

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Carlita...

Being a Baha'i I accept Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah as Manifestations of God... They had unique characteristics and with stood ignorance and prejudice...

You can read a good synopsis in my opinion of the Baha’i concept “Manifestation of God” at

http://bahai-library.com/books/quest/quest.06.html

Compared to respect to those listed who have passed, do you (or can you)see the same respect or reverence to people living? Is their passing a "key" to if one is respected or worshiped and who is not?

That type of thing.

Nam.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Carlita...

Being a Baha'i I accept Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah as Manifestations of God... They had unique characteristics and with stood ignorance and prejudice...

You can read a good synopsis in my opinion of the Baha’i concept “Manifestation of God” at

http://bahai-library.com/books/quest/quest.06.html

Compared to respect to those listed who have passed, do you (or can you)see the same respect or reverence to people living? Is their passing a "key" to if one is respected or worshiped and who is not?

That type of thing.

Nam.

 

[arthra]

Compared to respect to those listed who have passed, do you (or can you)see the same respect or reverence to people living? Is their passing a "key" to if one is respected or worshiped and who is not?

That type of thing.

Nam.

My regret is that I was not born at a time when I could have attained His presence but I do have His Word and the Spirit of the Cause of God does not die...

 

[Unveiled Artist]

My regret is that I was not born at a time when I could have attained His presence but I do have His Word and the Spirit of the Cause of God does not die...

Do you find people living who would deserve the same respect as you would, say Muhammad? Or does their living and the other physically passed on changes how you see the live person compared to the past: even If they had the same spirit but two different people (say Jesus ans Muhammad)?

Im more asking about the importance people place on thr spirit of the deceased and not the spirit of the living. Is there a difference? And why?

Nam.

 

[arthra]

Do you find people living who would deserve the same respect as you would, say Muhammad? Or does their living and the other physically passed on changes how you see the live person compared to the past: even If they had the same spirit but two different people (say Jesus ans Muhammad)?

Im more asking about the importance people place on thr spirit of the deceased and not the spirit of the living. Is there a difference? And why?

Nam.

Most believers hold that spirits of the living continue after their separation from the body... so we can still be in contact with those who have passed on to the next life..

But maybe your question in my view should be what is a Manifestation of God like Jesus or Muhammad?... A Manifestation of God such as Jesus or Muhammad is a special Being.. Their influence and spiritual power is not acquired as the average person. I'll refer you to an essay on the subject and maybe you can understand where I'm coming from...

http://bahai-library.com/books/quest/quest.06.html

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Most believers hold that spirits of the living continue after their separation from the body... so we can still be in contact with those who have passed on to the next life..

But maybe your question in my view should be what is a Manifestation of God like Jesus or Muhammad?... A Manifestation of God such as Jesus or Muhammad is a special Being.. Their influence and spiritual power is not acquired as the average person. I'll refer you to an essay on the subject and maybe you can understand where I'm coming from...

http://bahai-library.com/books/quest/quest.06.html

Thank you. I think we are not getting each other.

Why do the religious (I find I do this too) but more emphasis on the spirits of the deceased "more than" the spirits of the living?

Couple examples:

When Jesus walked the earth, only a handful of people followed Him (in addition to family). The rest didnt listen to Him, admired Him from afar, and even got Him killed. Now...people worship the ground he walks on.

Saints arent catonized until they have passed.

I say hello to my mother when I have a chance; if she passes before me (heaven forbid), Id have a better connection because I know shed still be protecting and caring for me as she done when I was ill in hospitals. (We dont have a good connection now)

The spirits of all these individuals are the same. Why do we put more emphasis on who they are (in worship, for example) after they "physicaly" pass and not the entire time since no one dies?

(Side note: I think the only people I know who kinda does that but not 100 percent are roman catholics. They kissed he popes ring, pow to him, etc. Same theyd do for Christ. However he isnt catonized until years after his passing. I asked my friend this question, she said the "dead give us examples of how to live" and the physical living dont? She said, if I remember, we are not perfect. So from her perspective (since she believes in purgatory etc) no one is purely holy other than Jesus and his followers (and people she care for who have been purified)"after" they have passed.

Nam.

 

[psychoslice]

I think its because many but their god-man or favourite saviour up on a pedestal, they then worship this so called god, and nothing is allowed to be above this favourite god, and in doing so they imprisoned themselves in a prison of their own making.