Today's problems

[1213]

Is that a dogmatic view or simply ignorance?

It is truthful view that is based on real observations.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Not always. I think I know my limits of knowledge. But sometimes it is pretty obvious when someone is ignorant about a subject - like @1213 is about Climate Change.

I disagree. I also do not see evidence proving that their is a problem and even less evidence that we could do anything about it if there were.

 

[Trailblazer]

I disagree. I also do not see evidence proving that their is a problem and even less evidence that we could do anything about it if there were.

You do not think that there is evidence proving that climate change is a problem?
So all these scientists just got bored one day because they had nothing better to do?

Whether there is a solution or not is another matter.

 

[Trailblazer]

It is truthful view that is based on real observations.

What real observations lead you to believe that climate change is not really a problem?

 

[Zaha Torte]

You do not think that there is evidence proving that climate change is a problem?
So all these scientists just got bored one day because they had nothing better to do?

Whether there is a solution or not is another matter.

No I do not believe that it is a problem. The climate has never been fixed. It has always been in flux. This like saying solar flares are a problem. Sure they can affect us negatively but they happen and there is nothing we could ever do about them.

 

[Trailblazer]

No I do not believe that it is a problem. The climate has never been fixed. It has always been in flux. This like saying solar flares are a problem. Sure they can affect us negatively but they happen and there is nothing we could ever do about them.

This is why fighting climate change is so urgent

 

[Heyo]

I disagree. I also do not see evidence proving that their is a problem

This has two components:
1. the evidence you are ignorant of and
2. the evaluation if that is a problem.

What evidence are you missing?
That CO2 levels are rising?
That CO2 is a greenhouse gas?

What would you call a problem?
Rising sea levels?
Desertification?
Invasive species?
Weather extremes?

and even less evidence that we could do anything about it if there were.

Are you aware that humans produced about 37 Gt of CO2 from fossil fuel in 2017?
Don't you think that simply not doing that would help?

 

[Trailblazer]

This has two components:
1. the evidence you are ignorant of and
2. the evaluation if that is a problem.

What evidence are you missing?
That CO2 levels are rising?
That CO2 is a greenhouse gas?

What would you call a problem?
Rising sea levels?
Desertification?
Invasive species?
Weather extremes?

Are you aware that humans produced about 37 Gt of CO2 from fossil fuel in 2017?
Don't you think that simply not doing that would help?

I can hardly wait for the response, and I am controlling myself and not making my comment till I hear it.

 

[Zaha Torte]

This is why fighting climate change is so urgent

I believe that to be arrogant. The climate is going to do what its gonna do and there is nothing we can do to stop or "fight" it. We will adapt or be destroyed.

 

[Zaha Torte]

This has two components:
1. the evidence you are ignorant of and
2. the evaluation if that is a problem.

What evidence are you missing?
That CO2 levels are rising?
That CO2 is a greenhouse gas?

What would you call a problem?
Rising sea levels?
Desertification?
Invasive species?
Weather extremes?

Are you aware that humans produced about 37 Gt of CO2 from fossil fuel in 2017?
Don't you think that simply not doing that would help?

There have been periods of CO2 rising and lowering, seas rising and falling, desertification, species migrations and "extreme" weather all throughout the history of our planet.

The idea that Mankind is the cause of or solution to climate changes is arrogance to the "extreme".

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe that to be arrogant. The climate is going to do what its gonna do and there is nothing we can do to stop or "fight" it. We will adapt or be destroyed.

Why is that arrogant?

How do you know that there is nothing we can do to stop or "fight" it? Are humans powerless?

 

[Trailblazer]

The idea that Mankind is the cause of or solution to climate changes is arrogance to the "extreme".

The idea that Mankind is not the cause of or solution to climate changes is denial to the "extreme."

What’s causing these harmful changes?

It’s mainly us.

We humans are the ones who burn fossil fuels and chop down forests, causing average temperatures to rise worldwide. That global warming trend is increasingly disrupting our climate — the average weather over many years.

Earth has already warmed by about 1 degree Celsius, or 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit, since the 19th century, before industry started to boom.

While we experience the effects, we’re on our way toward 1.5 degrees C (2.7 F) by as early as 2030.

This is why fighting climate change is so urgent

 

[Zaha Torte]

Why is that arrogant?

How do you know that there is nothing we can do to stop or "fight" it? Are humans powerless?

It is an exaggerated sense of our importance and/or ability. I don't think we could destroy this planet even if we tried. All we could accomplish is our own destruction. The planet wouldn't even notice our passing.

 

[Zaha Torte]

The idea that Mankind is not the cause of or solution to climate changes is denial to the "extreme."

What’s causing these harmful changes?

It’s mainly us.

We humans are the ones who burn fossil fuels and chop down forests, causing average temperatures to rise worldwide. That global warming trend is increasingly disrupting our climate — the average weather over many years.

Earth has already warmed by about 1 degree Celsius, or 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit, since the 19th century, before industry started to boom.

While we experience the effects, we’re on our way toward 1.5 degrees C (2.7 F) by as early as 2030.

This is why fighting climate change is so urgent

The geological records shows many times throughout Earth's history of CO2 levels and temperatures rising and falling both before and after the rise of Mankind.

 

[Trailblazer]

All we could accomplish is our own destruction.

And that does not matter?

 

[Trailblazer]

The geological records shows many times throughout Earth's history of CO2 levels and temperatures rising and falling both before and after the rise of Mankind.

But the problem has become worse since the age of industrialization.

 

[Zaha Torte]

And that does not matter?

That comment was relative to the idea that us "trying to destroy the planet" would only destroy ourselves.

I don't see any evidence suggesting that anyone is actively trying to destroy the planet.

All I'm saying is we cannot destroy the planet even if we tried.

 

[Zaha Torte]

But the problem has become worse since the age of industrialization.

I'm saying that it is not a problem.

If the planet has always experienced periods of CO2 and temperature rising and falling then it happening again now is not a problem.

 

[Heyo]

There have been periods of CO2 rising and lowering, seas rising and falling, desertification, species migrations and "extreme" weather all throughout the history of our planet.

So we agree that CO2 levels are rising and that CO2 is a greenhouse gas. Good.
That you don't care about catastrophic changes in our environment is a matter of opinion. I think that to be dangerously fatalistic but that is also opinion.

The idea that Mankind is the cause of or solution to climate changes is arrogance to the "extreme".

Were you aware of and do you understand the Carbon Cycle?
Human activity is responsible of about 3% of that cycle and half of that is contributing to the rise in CO2.
I think that is quite a lot.

 

[Zaha Torte]

So we agree that CO2 levels are rising and that CO2 is a greenhouse gas. Good.
That you don't care about catastrophic changes in our environment is a matter of opinion. I think that to be dangerously fatalistic but that is also opinion.

Were you aware of and do you understand the Carbon Cycle?
Human activity is responsible of about 3% of that cycle and half of that is contributing to the rise in CO2.
I think that is quite a lot.

Not so much fatalistic as realistic.

The climate of our planet has never been static. It has always been changing and there is nothing we can do about.

I'm not saying that we should roll over and die but we shouldn't destroy our economies in a vain attempt to do the impossible either.

I believe the changes will be so miniscule over such a long period of time that we will adapt to them naturally.