Tommy Robinson: Arrest and Gag order in the UK

[icehorse]

Tommy Robinson is an extremely outspoken critic of Britain's immigration policies. He frequently speaks and protests against the massive influx of Muslims into Britain. He has been in trouble with the law, and many consider him to be "far right" (as reported in the independent.uk article linked below).

A few days back he was outside a courthouse reporting on the case of Muslims being tried for "grooming" (i.e. sex trafficking).

He was arrested for "breaching the peace". Within the span of a day, the judge tried him, convicted him, sent him to prison, and issued a gag order to the press. There are reports that he was not allowed counsel.

I find all of the authority's actions shocking. I'm also linking to several news sources. The most "central" seems to be the independent.uk. I find it striking how different the independent's reporting is to Gatestone's reporting. It's clear that Gatestone is an advocacy journalism organization, they are strongly anti-Islam and pro-Israel. But to me, their reporting seems objectively far more honest than the independent's reporting. (As a side note, it would appear that many large news organizations are honoring the gag order, if anyone finds more mainstream reporting, please provide links!)

thoughts?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ehall-free-latest-arrest-police-a8371616.html

UK: You're Not Allowed to Talk about It. About What? Don't Ask.

Right-wing activist Tommy Robinson reportedly jailed after filming outside child grooming trial

 

[74x12]

Tommy Robinson is an extremely outspoken critic of Britain's immigration policies. He frequently speaks and protests against the massive influx of Muslims into Britain. He has been in trouble with the law, and many consider him to be "far right" (as reported in the independent.uk article linked below).

A few days back he was outside a courthouse reporting on the case of Muslims being tried for "grooming" (i.e. sex trafficking).

He was arrested for "breaching the peace". Within the span of a day, the judge tried him, convicted him, sent him to prison, and issued a gag order to the press. There are reports that he was not allowed counsel.

I find all of the authority's actions shocking. I'm also linking to several news sources. The most "central" seems to be the independent.uk. I find it striking how different the independent's reporting is to Gatestone's reporting. It's clear that Gatestone is an advocacy journalism organization, they are strongly anti-Islam and pro-Israel. But to me, their reporting seems objectively far more honest than the independent's reporting. (As a side note, it would appear that many large news organizations are honoring the gag order, if anyone finds more mainstream reporting, please provide links!)

thoughts?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ehall-free-latest-arrest-police-a8371616.html

UK: You're Not Allowed to Talk about It. About What? Don't Ask.

Right-wing activist Tommy Robinson reportedly jailed after filming outside child grooming trial

So much for freedom of speech. It's dead in Europe. Dying in the USA.

 

[Shad]

So much for freedom of speech. It's dead in Europe.

It never existed in Europe.

 

[David T]

Far too esoteric for RF but relevant.

 

[Debater Slayer]

So much for freedom of speech. It's dead in Europe. Dying in the USA.

It never existed in Europe.

Keep saying that while multiple European countries soar far ahead of the U.S. in more than one part of human development indices.

The chest-thumping and nationalistic air of touting "American freedom of speech" and exaggerating by saying freedom of speech is dead or dying in Europe is little more than kindergarten-grade juvenile hyperbole.

 

[74x12]

Keep saying that while multiple European countries soar far ahead of the U.S. in more than one part of human development indices.

The chest-thumping and nationalistic air of touting "American freedom of speech" and exaggerating by saying freedom of speech is dead or dying in Europe is little more than kindergarten-grade juvenile hyperbole.

I said it's dying in the USA. Did you miss that part? I'm not a "chest thumper" thanks ...

 

[icehorse]

Keep saying that while multiple European countries soar far ahead of the U.S. in more than one part of human development indices.

The chest-thumping and nationalistic air of touting "American freedom of speech" and exaggerating by saying freedom of speech is dead or dying in Europe is little more than kindergarten-grade juvenile hyperbole.

What do you think about this particular episode?

 

[Debater Slayer]

I said it's dying in the USA. Did you miss that part? I'm not a "chest thumper" thanks ...

So you believe it is dead in Europe?

Regardless, I don't think the U.S. at this particular time is ahead of Europe in terms of freedom of speech. It isn't Europe (at least the more developed parts thereof) that has a major problem with religious extremists and nazi sympathizers in its most powerful offices.

 

[74x12]

So you believe it is dead in Europe?

Regardless, I don't think the U.S. at this particular time is ahead of Europe in terms of freedom of speech. It isn't Europe (at least the more developed parts thereof) that has a major problem with religious extremists and nazi sympathizers in its most powerful offices.

We're not talking about nazi sympathizers or religious extremists which you believe are running rampant through the most powerful offices of the USA. We're talking about freedom of speech.

Yes the USA is ahead (barely). In Europe you can be arrested for many things that you would get away with in the USA.

 

[Debater Slayer]

What do you think about this particular episode?

It seems hasty to form a conclusion regarding the fairness or lack thereof of this trial given the lack of details. For instance, it isn't clear from the articles what exactly he did that led to his arrest, but they also mention that he has a history with previous sentences. Ideologically driven, emotional reactions to his arrest from those for or against him seem premature and unwise.

 

[Debater Slayer]

We're not talking about nazi sympathizers or religious extremists which you believe are running rampant through the most powerful offices of the USA. We're talking about freedom of speech.

Yes the USA is ahead (barely). In Europe you can be arrested for many things that you would get away with in the USA.

The current gallery of lunatics ruling the U.S. are inseparable from the topic of deteriorating freedom of speech. Ask yourself whether an LGBT person or a victim of sexual assault would find the U.S. in its current state more free than Europe and then consider how the answer reflects on how "ahead" the U.S. supposedly is.

 

[columbus]

I am generally suspicious of gag orders.

One thing I believe is "If you don't want it known that you are doing something, you probably shouldn't be doing it."
Tom

 

[74x12]

The current gallery of lunatics ruling the U.S. are inseparable from the topic of deteriorating freedom of speech. Ask yourself whether an LGBT person or a victim of sexual assault would find the U.S. in its current state more free than Europe and then consider how the answer reflects on how "ahead" the U.S. supposedly is.

Explain your point. How is the freedom of speech of LGBT people or sexual assault victims being infringed in the USA more than in Europe?

 

[Shad]

Keep saying that while multiple European countries soar far ahead of the U.S. in more than one part of human development indices.
The chest-thumping and nationalistic air of touting "American freedom of speech" and exaggerating by saying freedom of speech is dead or dying in Europe is little more than kindergarten-grade juvenile hyperbole.

Not in the US so the comparison has zero effect on me.

 

[Debater Slayer]

One thing I believe is "If you don't want it known that you are doing something, you probably shouldn't be doing it."
Tom

Raif Badawi says hi.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Explain your point. How is the freedom of speech of LGBT people or sexual assault victims being infringed in the USA more than in Europe?

1) There are, according to statistics I came across a while back, a lot of homeless LGBT people in the U.S. who were kicked out of their homes due to their sexual orientation. Also, the issues with discrimination against transgendered people in the U.S. Army come to mind.

2) The consequences many women face when they attempt to speak out about their experiences of sexual assault don't paint a very rosy picture of how free they are to do so.

Now, one might argue that these restrictions are more on the social side than the legal one, and while I believe that is true to an extent, I don't think you can really treat the legal and social aspects as separate in a democracy. Trump, Pence, et al. are hardly unique; millions staunchly support people like those and agree with their beliefs, after all.

 

[Shad]

Tommy Robinson is an extremely outspoken critic of Britain's immigration policies. He frequently speaks and protests against the massive influx of Muslims into Britain. He has been in trouble with the law, and many consider him to be "far right" (as reported in the independent.uk article linked below).

A few days back he was outside a courthouse reporting on the case of Muslims being tried for "grooming" (i.e. sex trafficking).

He was arrested for "breaching the peace". Within the span of a day, the judge tried him, convicted him, sent him to prison, and issued a gag order to the press. There are reports that he was not allowed counsel.

I find all of the authority's actions shocking. I'm also linking to several news sources. The most "central" seems to be the independent.uk. I find it striking how different the independent's reporting is to Gatestone's reporting. It's clear that Gatestone is an advocacy journalism organization, they are strongly anti-Islam and pro-Israel. But to me, their reporting seems objectively far more honest than the independent's reporting. (As a side note, it would appear that many large news organizations are honoring the gag order, if anyone finds more mainstream reporting, please provide links!)

thoughts?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ehall-free-latest-arrest-police-a8371616.html

UK: You're Not Allowed to Talk about It. About What? Don't Ask.

Right-wing activist Tommy Robinson reportedly jailed after filming outside child grooming trial

He screwed up.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Not in the US so the comparison has zero effect on me.

Fair enough.

 

[Shad]

Fair enough.

I still view the principle of the 1A is better than social whims or government edicts.

 

[icehorse]

Ideologically driven, emotional reactions to his arrest from those for or against him seem premature and unwise.

In this case, I'm most concerned about:

- the rule of law
- gag orders and the quality of journalism