Tommy Robinson: Arrest and Gag order in the UK

[columbus]

View attachment 22039

I should get a T-shirt made for 4th of July.
I could wear it again on V-E day.

Whenever that is...

Tom

 

[exchemist]

Yes but we are honest about it you yokel snobs! I blame the English why the US is such a joke. Although I think robin Williams actually nailed it. He said the first settlers in the Americas (puritans) were so uptight that the English kicked them out... Lol that's funny bad.

That is certainly one reason why the USA has so many wacky religious sects.

A lot of them found Europe too intolerant of them so they set sail for the New World. And the ones that were too wacky for the East Coast moved gradually West. So the wackiest of the wacky ended up in places like California, I suppose. (I won't ask where you live. )

It's very much like chromatography in chemistry, really.

 

[exchemist]

so do you think there is no gag order?

No. It will be infringement of the sub judice rule and consequent contempt of court, almost certainly.

If you think the sub judice principle is "gagging", why don't you start a thread on it?

 

[GoodbyeDave]

He is currently subject to a suspended sentence. If his conduct breaches the conditions of his release, then naturally he will be arrested and sent to prison.

The USians posting on this topic are either ignorant of what sub judice means, or prefer the frequent media circus situations they get in their own country. My reply? Clean up your racism, religious bigotry, inequality, etc, etc, and then you can come and tell us how to run our country. Mind you, we'll still tell you to F off.

 

[David T]

That is certainly one reason why the USA has so many wacky religious sects.

A lot of them found Europe too intolerant of them so they set sail for the New World. And the ones that were too wacky for the East Coast moved gradually West. So the wackiest of the wacky ended up in places like California, I suppose. (I won't ask where you live. )

It's very much like chromatography in chemistry, really.

Oregon.... totally different country.. gotta remember oregon itself is larger than the total of the Britain island in square miles. With about the total population of Scotland.... maybe. It's the wilderness in comparison and I live in the boondocks of the wilderness the coast. Gotta go at Starbucks, the coffee temple!!! Lol.

 

[oldbadger]

so do you think there is no gag order?

Just a second......
This bloke received a SUSPENDED SENTENCE last year for causing some kind iof disruption outside Canterbury Crown Court............ so if he was even slightly out of order outside this other Court then........ the suspended sentence can be brought into effect by any other Judge.

This guy is trouble, it seems:-
Robinson is already under a suspended sentence for committing contempt of court over a gang rape case heard in Canterbury last year.

.......................... and:-

Judge Heather Norton handed him a three months imprisonment in May last year but suspended it for 18 months on the condition he did not commit further offences.


.......................... and:-
He co-founded the English Defence League (EDL) in 2009 and has been arrested numerous times during demonstrations and at fights between football fans, as well as being jailed for mortgage fraud in 2014.


So he's got a fair old criminal record already here, and if he stands outside Courts where witnesses have to pass him by as they enter or leave, then he's going to attract the attention of Police like the Sergeant and Constable that nicked him in this incident.

Demonstrations, football fights, contempt of court, mortgage fraud......... yep....this guy's a sweetie-pie alright. And he's an extremist who has clearly come foul of our Equality Act 2010.... no doubt.

Oh, and if a Judge wants to gag his mouth, then s/he can...... our Judges are there to make judgements about these things.

 

[Estro Felino]

Oh, and if a Judge wants to gag his mouth, then s/he can...... our Judges are there to make judgements about these things.

This principle you describe is called "Abuse of power" in the Napoleonic juridic tradition and in most civil law systems.

According to Montesquieu judges are nothing but the "mouth of the law"...so they cannot express personal judgments but only can apply already existing laws.

Besides for very grave crimes, the criminal trial here is public...not even the judge can censor it

So, not being a journalist but a far-right thug, he is not allowed to post videos full of tendentious allegations to stir up hatred while the trial is on.

Please..let's be honest...if the trial had been about Catholic priests accused of pedophilia, there would have had no kind of media censorship...

No journalist would have been accused of stirring up hatred against the RCC or the Vatican

Double standards

 

[icehorse]

Gatestone institute seems to be an anti-muslim far right organ, involving the usual suspects, viz. some American jews with an axe to grind, James Woolsey, John Bolton and other nutcases.: Gatestone Institute - Wikipedia. It apparently has a very chequered history of reporting and has links to Putin's disinformation campaigns. (Funny how often that comes up on this website these days - a rash of threads, just at the time the Dutch fingered Russia for shooting down that plane. I'm sure it's just coincidence.)

The Independent is a left of centre British newspaper founded in the 1980s and currently owned by a Russian businessman called Lebedev.

Before you get too shocked, you need to be aware this Yaxley-Lennon character was already subject to a suspended prison sentence for contempt of court, the conditions of which he has just apparently violated. He will be subject to due process under the English criminal law. From what I read, the issue is the trial is continuing, so the matter is sub judice. If Americans (or Russian trolls) do not know what that is, you can read about it here: Sub judice - Wikipedia. So, not being a journalist but a far-right thug, he is not allowed to post videos full of tendentious allegations to stir up hatred while the trial is on. Which is what he does. All the time. (There may more to this and other offences, but as this storm in a teacup has not been that much reported by the serious press, I don't have any more information.)

Twitter (A US company) revoked his account in March this year for hate speech: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43572168

I read about Sub judice. Thanks for that link.

My reading might be wrong, but it strikes me that the reason he just got arrested is distinct from his previous trial?

As for his character, I have to say three things:

1 - Being an anti-Islam noisemaker in Europe these days doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.
2 - His character oughtn't be the main point in this situation, and it might be that one man's thug is another man's freedom fighter.
3 - As for the "far right", would you say that anyone who is concerned about mass-Islamic immigration is automatically on the "far right" ?

 

[Shad]

Who screwed up, the judge?

No Tommy. The law was set against him by the previous charges and how this case is being handled. Whether you agree with the laws or not he walked into this one.

 

[icehorse]

No Tommy. The law was set against him by the previous charges and how this case is being handled. Whether you agree with the laws or not he walked into this one.

Ok, so there were previous charges and he was on a probation sort of thing? So then I guess his actions from a few days ago broke his probation? So the law is that the judge can place a gag order on both events?

If that's correct so far, then *some* journalists have decided to break the gag order and report on this event - at least the 3 agencies I linked to in the OP. So are those 3 news agencies possibly in trouble with the law as well?

 

[Shad]

Ok, so there were previous charges and he was on a probation sort of thing?

Contempt of Court. He was placed on probation, suspended sentence, instead of sentenced to prison. The probation includes refraining from disorderly conduct and journalism. The grooming case has a gag order created by the judge as the judge believes the media could damage the chances of a conviction. This is becoming possible as the defendants are using people like Tommy or Murray to claim bias created by the media's coverage.

So then I guess his actions from a few days ago broke his probation? So the law is that the judge can place a gag order on both events?

Yes and a judge has.

If that's correct so far, then *some* journalists have decided to break the gag order and report on this event - at least the 3 agencies I linked to in the OP. So are those 3 news agencies possibly in trouble with the law as well?

As the government is using these violations and laws to keep Tommy quiet.

No as the gag order is on the proceedings not the knowledge and reporting there is a trial. Ex. OJ is on trial for murder vs OJ put the gloves on as part of the case (proceeding) for a member of the court. The former can be reported on, the later can not. Tommy's own case was completed in mere hours so the gag order on his case was not applicable to the reporting he had a trial. The Fox article is from the US not the UK thus not under UK laws nor court orders. The UK would need to petition the US government, go through extradition orders and the US own justice system before facing the light of day in a UK courtroom. It is a battle not worth it as Fox is worth billions and has a cadre of lawyers while Tommy has neither. The Indy article contains no court proceedings. The Gatestone one is a US based organization thus has the same problems as a case against Fox.

 

[Cooky]

exaggerating by saying freedom of speech is dead or dying in Europe is little more than kindergarten-grade juvenile hyperbole.

What seems odd is the gag order in a situation like this. Everyone already knows why he was arrested, but to add the gag order just makes it seem like the perfect time for the government to give him real good ribbing behind closed doors... really make him pay, and noone can see whether the circumstances are legitimate.

 

[Twilight Hue]

So much for freedom of speech. It's dead in Europe. Dying in the USA.

It's definitely not hard to see what's going on in between the lines. Speech apparently has become a dangerous thing in the eyes of some governments.

 

[Cooky]

He is currently subject to a suspended sentence. If his conduct breaches the conditions of his release, then naturally he will be arrested and sent to prison.

The USians posting on this topic are either ignorant of what sub judice means, or prefer the frequent media circus situations they get in their own country. My reply? Clean up your racism, religious bigotry, inequality, etc, etc, and then you can come and tell us how to run our country. Mind you, we'll still tell you to F off.

In the mean time, keep telling us how aweful our president is, and how freedom of speech is kintergarten-level thinking.

 

[Cooky]

This principle you describe is called "Abuse of power" in the Napoleonic juridic tradition and in most civil law systems.

According to Montesquieu judges are nothing but the "mouth of the law"...so they cannot express personal judgments but only can apply already existing laws.

Besides for very grave crimes, the criminal trial here is public...not even the judge can censor it



Please..let's be honest...if the trial had been about Catholic priests accused of pedophilia, there would have had no kind of media censorship...

No journalist would have been accused to stirring up hatred against the RCC or the Vatican

So true.

 

[Estro Felino]

Contempt of Court. He was placed on probation, suspended sentence, instead of sentenced to prison. The probation includes refraining from disorderly conduct and journalism. The grooming case has a gag order created by the judge as the judge believes the media could damage the chances of a conviction. This is becoming possible as the defendants are using people like Tommy or Murray to claim bias created by the media's coverage.

.

Until a week ago not so many people knew who Robinson is.
Arresting him has brought these consequences:

- now everyone knows the rapists' ethnicity

- Robinson's followers are multiplying

- The British judiciary has lost credibility

 

[oldbadger]

This principle you describe is called "Abuse of power" in the Napoleonic juridic tradition and in most civil law systems.

So much for the Napoleonic Juridic tradition!!
And Napoleon, rising through a Republican country, became its Dictator, so it might have been better to have chosen some other nam,e for your tradition.....

According to Montesquieu judges are nothing but the "mouth of the law"...so they cannot express personal judgments but only can apply already existing laws.

They are Judges! They make Judgements!

Please..let's be honest...if the trial had been about Catholic priests accused of pedophilia, there would have had no kind of media censorship.

Let's be Honest, you tagged a paragraph on here which I never wrote, and then suggest that we be honest.

Double standards

People who already have suspended prison sentences shouldn't hang around Court entrances stirring up trouble.
And in many other countries this bloke would have been banged up in nick, not free to roam on a suspended.

If you don't like the country, go pick any other, and you could invite thaty guy to go with you, maybe?

 

[oldbadger]

Until a week ago not so many people knew who Robinson is.
Arresting him has brought these consequences:

We did!

- now everyone knows the rapists' ethnicity

We report court cases here, and identify convicts, whoever they are.
For instance, we know about Robinson's extreme fanaticism and criminal record.

- Robinson's followers are multiplying

Tide comes in..... Tide goes out.....

- The British judiciary has lost credibility

Not over this, it hasn't.
Now 70 years ago it really did take a knocking, and as a result our laws changed for the better.
No system run by humans is perfect, but ours isn't that bad.... really.

 

[oldbadger]

It's very, very different than ours, that's for sure.

Are you in the USA?

It saddens me that you won't admit that the same very system doesn't punish the people who "Stir up hatred against the Vatican or Catholics outside the Courthouse"...if some priests were accused of organizing "pedophile orgies":

It saddens me that you keep accusing me of things that I haven't done...... please don't tell me what I will or won't admit to until you've actually seen it in writing, by me...... that's the second time you've tried to put words 'into my mouth'.

Over here we try to keep order in public places, especially when or where breaches-of-peace may occur. And anybody who attempts to or succeeds in provoking or inciting other to commit criminal offences commits a common-law offence here, which is a really sensible piece of law, imo.

 

[exchemist]

Oregon.... totally different country.. gotta remember oregon itself is larger than the total of the Britain island in square miles. With about the total population of Scotland.... maybe. It's the wilderness in comparison and I live in the boondocks of the wilderness the coast. Gotta go at Starbucks, the coffee temple!!! Lol.

Hmm, but quite a long way, erm, how shall I put this.....west.......