Top 10 reasons why Jesus Christ Isn't God

[Godobeyer]

I don't agree this , can you explain by gives arguments .

I agree this , but what you mean by Moral thinker .[/quote. . . . . . . The planet we live on is very special because of it's ability to produce and maintain complex life . It's the only one that we know of at this point . A moral thinker is then compelled by nature to be pro life. When I say jesus was one of the greatest Moral Thinkers I should explain . None of his teaching was original . Which leads to another reason why he was not God. God himself coming to earth without bringing an original thought ? The reason he was one of the best was his knowledge extend and came in immediate contrast with his surroundings . Moral Thinkers of the day only seek to preserve specific cultures. His range extended past that.

Acuatly all the Messangers of God were Moral thinkers . what make Jesus (pbuh) special is he (pbuh) born without father exactly as Adam without father and mother .
and what made his special also that he is the last prophet to the Jews .
and what made him special also that he will come back again to break the cross .

 

[Godobeyer]

I want to know if some one could deny these top 10 reasons , which give clear proofs, which deny that Jesus (pbuh) was not a God

[youtube]YW99U4JWNEc[/youtube][/quote]

Well, the argument from popularity is presented as some form of credibility within the first 37 seconds, which is reason enough to conclude that the remaining 47:13 seconds is just going to continue with the same type of apologetic nonsense.

Granted I still don't believe Jesus is God, or that their is a 'God', but I understand that Islam is where this video was going which I find equally as appalling.

accuatly there are many reason that told us that Jesus (pbuh) was not a God
of one of them : that Jesus (pbuh) claim that God knowlage better than him
when they asked him (jesus pbuh) about the judgement day He said :
Matthew 24:36 " No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father"
this verse is very clear make Jesus (pbuh) had no "deity" .

 

[Godobeyer]

the gospels narratives share some great moral thinking, the Sermon on the Mount contains some universal morals that any thinking man can recognize, whether they believe in God or not.

good
acuatly i found out that Quran contain many verse which are consider a moral thinking , and if the bible too that sound to me great .
can you give/chose to us verses (as exemples) , which contain some great moral thinking in the gospels ?

 

[Caladan]

good
acuatly i found out that Quran contain many verse which are consider a moral thinking , and if the bible too that sound to me great .
can you give/chose to us verses (as exemples) , which contain some great moral thinking in the gospels ?

I would direct you to read the Sermon on the Mount, Proverbs in the Jewish Bible, Ecclesiastes in the Jewish Bible or Psalms. I think that quoting verses to prove a point often make them lose their meaning. people should go and read the whole context for themselves.

However here are a couple of selected verses I bring from the Jewish Bible that are simply humane. and resonate with every normal man.

"He who conceals an offense promotes love, but he who harps on it can separate even close friends"

Proverbs 17:9

"There are three things that are too hard for me, really four I don't understand: the way an eagle flies in the sky, the way a snake slides over a rock, the way a ship sails on the sea, and the way a man and a woman fall in love."

Proverbs 30:18-19

"Many waters cannot quench love; rivers cannot wash it away. If one were to give all the wealth of his house for love, it would be utterly scorned."

Song of Solomon 8:7

 

[Godobeyer]

good three proverbs "advises" , acuatly I don't know if there is a proverbs because it's book of guidance , also we have too many thinkful sentence and adivse sentences .

some advises verse:
1-"O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware."

2-Whoever chooses to follow the right path, follows it but for his own good; and whoever goes astray, goes but astray to his own hurt; and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another's burden. Moreover....(15)


some thinkful verses :
As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not. (6)

And of mankind are some who say: We believe in Allah and the Last Day, when they believe not. (8) They think to beguile Allah and those who believe, and they beguile none save themselves; but they perceive not. (9)In their hearts is a disease, and Allah increaseth their disease. A painful doom is theirs because they lie.

And when it is said unto them: Make not mischief in the earth, they say: We are peacemakers only. (11)Beware ! They indeed are the mischief-makers. But they perceive not. (12) And when it is said unto them: believe as the people believe, they say: Shall we believe as the foolish believe? Beware! They indeed are the foolish? But they know not.


Are ye the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built? (27) He raised the height thereof and ordered it; (28) And He made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morn thereof. (29) And after that He spread the earth, (30) And produced therefrom the water thereof and the pasture thereof, (31) And He made fast the hills, (32)A provision for you and for your cattle. (33)

]The likeness of those who are entrusted with the Law of Moses, yet apply it not, is as the likeness of the donkey carrying books. Wretched is the likeness of folk who deny the revelations of Allah. And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (5)

But he who turneth away from remembrance of Me, his will be a narrow life, and I shall bring him blind to the assembly on the Day of Resurrection. (124) He will say: My Lord! Wherefor hast Thou gathered me (hither) blind, when I was wont to see? (125) He will say: So (it must be). Our revelations came unto thee but thou didst forget them. In like manner thou art forgotten this Day.

And to the three also (did He turn in mercy) who were left behind, when the earth, vast as it is, become straitened for them, and their own souls were straitened for them till they bethought them that there is no refuge from Allah save toward Him. Then turned He unto them in mercy that they (too) might turn (repentant unto Him). Lo! Allah! He is the Relenting, the Merciful.

When the young men fled for refuge to the Cave and said: Our Lord! Give us mercy from Thy presence, and shape for us right conduct in our plight. (10)Then We sealed up their hearing in the Cave for a number of years. (11) And afterward We raised them up that We might know which of the two parties would best calculate the time that they had tarried.

Hath there come upon man (ever) any period of time in which he was a thing unremembered? (1) Lo! We create man from a drop of thickened fluid to test him; so We make him hearing, knowing. (2) Lo! We have shown him the way, whether he be grateful or disbelieving

 

[glyphkenn]

Acuatly all the Messangers of God were Moral thinkers . what make Jesus (pbuh) special is he (pbuh) born without father exactly as Adam without father and mother .
and what made his special also that he is the last prophet to the Jews .
and what made him special also that he will come back again to break the cross .

I am always amazed that at this stage of our intellectual development we still feel the need to believe in fairytales. It's these tall tales that allow a few and even one person to convince millions to do inhumane acts. When we shed our selves of those fairytales , a million people could not convince one man to commit a act of inhumanity .

 

[Godobeyer]

I am always amazed that at this stage of our intellectual development we still feel the need to believe in fairytales. It's these tall tales that allow a few and even one person to convince millions to do inhumane acts. When we shed our selves of those fairytales , a million people could not convince one man to commit a act of inhumanity .

I like to be very clear and fair .
not to write something , had sense hiding inside ,this is not intellectual act at all.
what you mean by "one person to convince millions to do inhumane acts" , Prophet Muhammad "pbuh" ?
if yes then : what is the inhumane acts that you speak ?

acuatly my subject is hit the theory that Jesus (pbuh) is God , long than one year no one could deny only one of the top 10 reason that deny the diety of Jesus (pbuh).
because they undeniable reasons , they are truth .

 

[ForeverFaithful]

I want to know if some one could deny these top 10 reasons , which give clear proofs, which deny that Jesus (pbuh) was not a God

[youtube]YW99U4JWNEc[/youtube]
YouTube - Top 10 reasons why Jesus Christ Isn't God-TheDeenShow

Seen it but I tell you it ignores essentialist Christian doctrines and depends on a viewers ignorance to Biblical Christianity

Now I saw it a long time ago but he's best arugements where

A) Jesus prays so therefore can't be God, Nope, Jesus was God incarnate and used Prayer to communicate with the Father, just as all humans do

B)Jesus had a start and end, Nope, John 1:1 says other wise

C) Jesus never claimed to be God, But he clearly did in John 8:58 and other verse of the New Testament (Also Isaiah 9:5 in the old) using the name God used when speaking to Moses, the Jews then tried to stone him, because of his claim to be God.

D) and my favorite 1+1+1=1? No, infinity+infinity+infinity=infinity

 

[glyphkenn]

I like to be very clear and fair .
not to write something , had sense hiding inside ,this is not intellectual act at all.
what you mean by "one person to convince millions to do inhumane acts" , Prophet Muhammad "pbuh" ?
if yes then : what is the inhumane acts that you speak ?

acuatly my subject is hit the theory that Jesus (pbuh) is God , long than one year no one could deny only one of the top 10 reason that deny the diety of Jesus (pbuh).
because they undeniable reasons , they are truth .

First off , I should apologize . I really didn't watch the video all the way through. I just couldn't make past the first two. As for the inhumane acts . I believe in nonviolence. I am not to be violent even to defend myself. Even in resistance I am to remain nonviolent . Just about every Moral Thinker believe this. Every violent act even wars, goes against the very essence of nature . As it stand Islam and Christianity and judism. Are running pretty close in wars fought in there names.

 

[Godobeyer]

Seen it but I tell you it ignores essentialist Christian doctrines and depends on a viewers ignorance to Biblical Christianity

Now I saw it a long time ago but he's best arugements where

A) Jesus prays so therefore can't be God, Nope, Jesus was God incarnate and used Prayer to communicate with the Father, just as all humans do

Jesus(pbuh) prays so therefore that pray another God , and that mean is not God .
it's a joke when God pray himself !!!!
secondly :
Jesus (pbuh) were very clear when he said :
Does Jesus now know when he is coming back? Or is this still only God's knowledge as stated in Matt. 24:36 and Mark 13:32?


Jesus replied, "The most important commandment is this: 'Listen, O Israel! The LORD our God is the one and only LORD.Mark 12:29

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"John 20:17

"As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, ‘Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?’ And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.’" Mark 10:17-18

1. God alone is (absolutely) good.
2. Jesus is not (absolutely) good.
3. Therefore, Jesus is not God.

B)Jesus had a start and end, Nope, John 1:1 says other wise

you mean this verse ?
John 1:1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

here the the answser The True Call - ISLAM - The Truth about John 1:1

C) Jesus never claimed to be God, But he clearly did in John 8:58 and other verse of the New Testament (Also Isaiah 9:5 in the old) using the name God used when speaking to Moses, the Jews then tried to stone him, because of his claim to be God.

for us, Moses and Jesus (pbut) never claim that they are god .
in which verse Moses is claim that he is God ?

D) and my favorite 1+1+1=1? No, infinity+infinity+infinity=infinity

one of us , are not good in the math
maybe you mean this : infinity+infinity+infinity=3 infinity

edited : BTW , we are all infinity creatures , because we will live in the hell or the heaven forever
let's count .

 

[Godobeyer]

First off , I should apologize . I really didn't watch the video all the way through. I just couldn't make past the first two. As for the inhumane acts . I believe in nonviolence. I am not to be violent even to defend myself. Even in resistance I am to remain nonviolent . Just about every Moral Thinker believe this. Every violent act even wars, goes against the very essence of nature . As it stand Islam and Christianity and judism. Are running pretty close in wars fought in there names.

don't worry my brother, we the followers of ''abrahimic relgions " take the habit to be in war , inspite that we pray the same God ,and we have almost the same laws of God !!!!
but believe me if any one of us (three) parctice the law of the religion as well , will never be a war .it's our destiny

and the first law , obey God law and be fair and don't harm any one or kill innocent .
acuatly there is big distingtion between the followers of the religion and religion it self .

it's like if some one "athiest" consider everything bad is bad luck and everything good is good luck even . and if he a believer he will refer the good to god and the bad to god or satan . , in each case there is a problem .

 

[ForeverFaithful]

Jesus(pbuh) prays so therefore that pray another God , and that mean is not God .
it's a joke when God pray himself !!!!
secondly :
Jesus (pbuh) were very clear when he said :
Does Jesus now know when he is coming back? Or is this still only God's knowledge as stated in Matt. 24:36 and Mark 13:32?


Jesus replied, "The most important commandment is this: 'Listen, O Israel! The LORD our God is the one and only LORD.Mark 12:29

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"John 20:17

"As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, ‘Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?’ And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.’" Mark 10:17-18

1. God alone is (absolutely) good.
2. Jesus is not (absolutely) good.
3. Therefore, Jesus is not God.

The Only thing you are refuting here is the Oneness Pentecostal doctrine which is only held by a small sect, Jesus prayed to His Father, they both were, and are God and also will be the One Ture God

you mean this verse ?
John 1:1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

here the the answser The True Call - ISLAM - The Truth about John 1:1

IN THE BEGINNING, Christ had no start, unless your saying Allah had a start, in which cause your God and mine is not eternal.

for us, Moses and Jesus (pbut) never claim that they are god .
in which verse Moses is claim that he is God ?

Moses never claimed to be God, but God gave Moses his name YHWH, or as it has been rendered in English, Jehovah, the same name Christ refers to himself (note YHWH is speculated to mean I AM and the Greek speutagiant had translated YHWH as I AM which is the name Jesus used to refer to himself, the Jews then stone him to death for claiming to be God.)

one of us , are not good in the math
maybe you mean this : infinity+infinity+infinity=3 infinity

No, Infinity is always Infinity, it doesn't get bigger or smaller.

edited : BTW , we are all infinity creatures , because we will live in the hell or the heaven forever
let's count .

We are not, this goes against the Jewish understanding, the Biblical Christian teachings and depends largely on the Hellenization of the two cultures to make sense, likely how it spet into Islam.

But the Bible says God alone is Immortal (1 Tim 6:16) and that we have the choice between Life or Death (John 3:16) That we must seek out immortality (Rom 2:7)
That the wicked's bodies will be destoryed just like their souls will (Matt 10:28) they will be burnt into smoke (Psalm 37:10,20) They will be ashes under the righteous' feet (Malachi 4:1,3 Is 47:14) The Devil will be cast in with the sinners (Is 14:15) and become nothing (Ezekiel 28:19)

 

[Godobeyer]

The Only thing you are refuting here is the Oneness Pentecostal doctrine which is only held by a small sect, Jesus prayed to His Father, they both were, and are God and also will be the One Ture God

it's foolish if you believe that God pray him self . and you don't explain three verses that I gave you .

IN THE BEGINNING, Christ had no start, unless your saying Allah had a start, in which cause your God and mine is not eternal.

Allah is arabic name meaning God , and it's close to Eloah/Elohim in hebrew .
the Jews called YHWH and they called him also Eloah/Elohim and it's close in the spelling to the arabic one . and by the way Jesus (pbuh) called God "Elahi" in aramaic
it's the same spelling in the arabic " إلهي" Elahi" which mean " MY GOD " .

[youtube]yBTnwFq0Lf4[/youtube]
,in aramaic JESUS CALLED GOD: ALLAH - YouTube
or check my thread
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...04471-jesus-pbuh-said-elahi-his-language.html

Moses never claimed to be God, but God gave Moses his name YHWH, or as it has been rendered in English, Jehovah, the same name Christ refers to himself (note YHWH is speculated to mean I AM and the Greek speutagiant had translated YHWH as I AM which is the name Jesus used to refer to himself, the Jews then stone him to death for claiming to be God.)

look brother it's seem that up to you,God gave his name to Moses first and then Jesus (pbut) , again in which verse God gave Moses his name YHWH
but it's realy shame to made God as delivery "name" .

No, Infinity is always Infinity, it doesn't get bigger or smaller.

we have 3 infinity of three persons , and we are infinity also , because we will got to heaven or hell forever

We are not, this goes against the Jewish understanding, the Biblical Christian teachings and depends largely on the Hellenization of the two cultures to make sense, likely how it spet into Islam.

for "infinity " what you support the Jewish understaning or chritianity/islam view ?

But the Bible says God alone is Immortal (1 Tim 6:16) and that we have the choice between Life or Death (John 3:16) That we must seek out immortality (Rom 2:7)
That the wicked's bodies will be destoryed just like their souls will (Matt 10:28) they will be burnt into smoke (Psalm 37:10,20) They will be ashes under the righteous' feet (Malachi 4:1,3 Is 47:14) The Devil will be cast in with the sinners (Is 14:15) and become nothing (Ezekiel 28:19)

it's seem you don't understand ,what mean in that verse "Immortal"
Immortal is some one never die , it's not the same meaning with infinity
all we are infinity but not immortal because everything die except God. our immortal begins at the judgement day .

 

[Godobeyer]

BTW that's why you used the word "infinity" not "immortal "
immortal+immortal+immortal is not correct .

 

[ForeverFaithful]

BTW that's why you used the word "infinity" not "immortal "
immortal+immortal+immortal is not correct .

Immortal is not a numerical value that's why.

Jesus saying I AM is the same as calling himself Allah, you've failed to state why the Jews would try and stone him if he wasn't saying it.

Give me one verse in the Whole Bible that says we have an infinity immortal soul, and counter each of the verse I brought up separately as opposed to merely discounting them based on semantics

 

[Godobeyer]

Immortal is not a numerical value that's why.

I mean it's not sudenly you don't use to explain the TIRINITY by the word "Immortal" instead of "Infinity " because you believed that Jesus (pbuh) died 3 days :yes:

edited for more explian :
you said "infinity + infinity + infinity = infinity " right ?
why you don't said : immortal +immortal +immortal =immortal
because Jesus (pbuh) die 3 days ?

Jesus saying I AM is the same as calling himself Allah, you've failed to state why the Jews would try and stone him if he wasn't saying it.

it's seem that the Jews stone many Prophets of God , I am happy that you don't deny that Jesus (pbuh) called his God "Elahi" in aramaic , it's just an info ignored by many christians and you were one of them

Give me one verse in the Whole Bible that says we have an infinity immortal soul, and counter each of the verse I brought up separately as opposed to merely discounting them based on semantics

why i give you , I did not claim that "there is an infinity immortal soul" , for what reason ?
what i want to say is : God is the only infinity immortal , not Jesus(pbuh) or anyone else .

 

[ForeverFaithful]

I mean it's not sudenly you don't use to explain the TIRINITY by the word "Immortal" instead of "Infinity " because you believed that Jesus (pbuh) died 3 days :yes:

The Trinity is Immortal however Immortal is not a numerical value and could not be used in Math, Christ did die 3 days to pay the wages of our sins (Rom 6:23) however He rose and conquered the grave and acended to return to the Godhead.

edited for more explian :
you said "infinity + infinity + infinity = infinity " right ?
why you don't said : immortal +immortal +immortal =immortal
because Jesus (pbuh) die 3 days ?

Jesus could die because he was God incarnate just as he could eat and drink,
Immortal is not a numerical value

it's seem that the Jews stone many Prophets of God , I am happy that you don't deny that Jesus (pbuh) called his God "Elahi" in aramaic , it's just an info ignored by many christians and you were one of them

Jesus often called His God, Abba, which means Daddy. Allah literal means The God I know that, I also know Jehovah and Allah both refer to the God of Abraham, I do not disagree that Abraham's God was the one true God, however the charater Islam gives to Allah I can not accept.

Jesus was stoned for Blaspheme not like Jeremiah who was persuceuted for preaching a message the Jews did not accept, they didn't stone Jeremiah for Blaspheme because they had no case.

why i give you , I did not claim that "there is an infinity immortal soul" , for what reason ?
what i want to say is : God is the only infinity immortal , not Jesus(pbuh) or anyone else .

You did say so, you said the wicked would spend eternity in Hell, as opposed to the Biblical doctirne of Annihalitionism

 

[Bismillah]

Jesus could die because he was God incarnate just as he could eat and drink,

But Jesus wasn't just able to eat and drink, he needed to survive. Doesn't this contradict the idea of omnipotence?

 

[Godobeyer]

The Trinity is Immortal however Immortal is not a numerical value and could not be used in Math, Christ did die 3 days to pay the wages of our sins (Rom 6:23) however He rose and conquered the grave and acended to return to the Godhead.

good claim , it's gospel writers claim that Jesus (pbuh) die for our sins , there is no claim from Jesus (pbuh) said that he want to die , inverse He would to die , he said
Elahi, Elahi, lama sabachthani
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Psalm 22

if he want to die , why run away ?
John 11:53-54

3Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.
54Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews; but went thence unto a country near to the wilderness, into a city called Ephraim, and there continued with his disciples.

Jesus could die because he was God incarnate just as he could eat and drink,
Immortal is not a numerical value

it's chemical not math ? what ever the "infinity" word did not mention the tirinity , inverse immortal mention to God, it's just new definition added in the christinity .

Jesus often called His God, Abba, which means Daddy. Allah literal means The God I know that, I also know Jehovah and Allah both refer to the God of Abraham, I do not disagree that Abraham's God was the one true God, however the charater Islam gives to Allah I can not accept.

you don't deny that Jesus (pbuh) used the word aramaic "Elahi" ?

Jesus was stoned for Blaspheme not like Jeremiah who was persuceuted for preaching a message the Jews did not accept, they didn't stone Jeremiah for Blaspheme because they had no case.

thanks for the info , we know Jesus (pbuh) was suffred as all the other prophets .

You did say so, you said the wicked would spend eternity in Hell, as opposed to the Biblical doctirne of Annihalitionism

I don't remember that i said "the wicked would spend eternity in the hell" where i said that ?

acuatly it's God choice who deserve , heaven and who desrve hell .