Smoke
Done here.
Bush vetoes bill outlawing CIA waterboarding | Politics | Reuters
Can we please fast-forward to January?
Can we please fast-forward to January?
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Torture Monkey stands firm
- Thread starter Smoke
- Start date
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Oh, those neo-cons and their sick little kinks. 
Why would someone introduce a bill to outlaw something that was already illegal? US soldiers have been tried, and some convicted of this in previous wars. If it weren't illegal already, how were they tried?
Did someone sneak into the legislature on some dark night and made the practice legal again? If so, should we be talking about overturning the convictions of those who were previously convicted of it?
Did someone sneak into the legislature on some dark night and made the practice legal again? If so, should we be talking about overturning the convictions of those who were previously convicted of it?
robtex
Veteran Member
perhaps water boarding is seen as one such way to "restore values" in America and the world!
Starfish
Please no sarcasm
perhaps water boarding is seen as one such way to "restore values" in America and the world!
If the choice was water boarding VS innocent people dying, which would you choose?
Smoke
Done here.
That's not the choice, and it's never been the choice, so why ask a completely irrelevant question?
John_672
Omnitheist
It has already been proven that torture of any type is an ineffective means of extracting information. Water boarding isn't saving people's lives, it is psychologically damaging both the person being tortured and the torturer. It is evil - period.
Starfish
Please no sarcasm
Sorry for the "irrelevant" question, Midnight. Please educate me. Do we know for a fact that water boarding has never produced necessary information?
Plus I resent the name "torture monkey."
Smoke
Done here.
We do know for a fact that torture does not produce reliable information.
Tough ****. I resent having a president who encourages torture.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Any expert, including Bush's experts in the CIA and military will tell you that torture does not elicit useful information for the obvious reason that a person being tortured will say anything to end the torture. Therefore nothing said in that context is reliable. It's useless.
On the other hand, the fact that the U.S. uses torture is a wonderful propaganda and recruiting device for Al Queda, a real favor from us to them. So it makes us less safe, not more. And it's immoral.
Starfish
Please no sarcasm
I don't believe for one second that you nor I nor anyone here knows more about this issue than Pres. Bush. He has much more info at his disposal than any of us. I trust his opinion.
Believe me I was no fan of our previous president. I could hardly stand to look at him. But he was our president and deserved my respect as such. I'm just sick of the name-calling.
Believe me I was no fan of our previous president. I could hardly stand to look at him. But he was our president and deserved my respect as such. I'm just sick of the name-calling.
KasMage
Member
I'm sure the experts in the CIA, the generals, and the folks who have actually been tortured know more about it than the average American citizen as well. But regardless, it is a little ridiculous to simply assume that the President is always right just because he's the President.
Starfish
Please no sarcasm
No we don't always assume he's right. But in this situation, as you said, he has the advice of those experts, who know a heck of a lot more about it than we do.
Smoke
Done here.
If Bush didn't have far less respect for his office than I have, he would never have abused it as he has.
But you're okay with the lies, the unprovoked invasion of Iraq, the kidnaping, the suspension of habeas corpus, and the torture? You choose an interesting place to draw the line.
yossarian22
Resident Schizophrenic
Yes. Freedom of information act.
I resent having a man with a tenuous grasp on English and reality for a president.
The uselessness of torture has been established more than a few times. A person should only sanction waterboarding if they have had the experience themselves.
KasMage
Member
There are way more experts opposed to torture than there are for it. Why should we accept the claims of the few advisors who support it simply because they work for the President? It isn't as if he's the only President we've ever had. People were tried for using the technique during the Vietnam War.
And I think that the simple fact that we haven't produced any useful information from water boarding should be reason enough to doubt its usefulness as an interrogation technique.
And I think that the simple fact that we haven't produced any useful information from water boarding should be reason enough to doubt its usefulness as an interrogation technique.
Yes, starfish. He does have experts at his disposal -- and they all agree that torture is counter-productive.
As in so many other cases, Bush hears only what conforms to his narrow, preconceived image of the world. He is a PNAC obsessed Neocon.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Because he has such a good track record of being right on so many issues so far...:sarcastic