Torture Monkey stands firm

[Mister_T]

Somehow, I don't think torture would be an effective tool against people who are willing to blow themselves up. I could be wrong.

 

[McBell]

If the choice was water boarding VS innocent people dying, which would you choose?

Seems to me that the President is in favour of water boarding over saving innocent lives.
Post #12 sums up the why rather nicely.

 

[Father Heathen]

I trust his opinion.

Even after 8 embarrassing years of corruption, misconduct and incompetence?

Also, I think most people who are pro-torture are so due to a want for vengeance, to take pleasure in it.

 

[rheff78]

I don't have a problem with it either Starfish. We have to try and get info out of these people, what are the alternatives? Ask them politely to tell the truth?

 

[Starfish]

Even after 8 embarrassing years of corruption, misconduct and incompetence?

Also, I think most people who are pro-torture are so due to a want for vengeance, to take pleasure in it.

Incompetence is a matter of opinion. What evidence is there of corruption and misconduct?
I am not pro-torture. I am for being safe. I am for avoiding future 9/11's.

I don't have a problem with it either Starfish. We have to try and get info out of these people, what are the alternatives? Ask them politely to tell the truth?

Thanks. I hesitate to get into these arguments because I don't know enough about it. I'm no expert. That's why I leave it to the real experts. And I doubt any of them are posting in RF.

 

[Father Heathen]

You support actions that increase anti-american sentiment which in turn breeds terrorism. Seems more like encouraging another '9/11' rather than avoiding one to me.

 

[Starfish]

You support actions that increase anti-american sentiment which in turn breeds terrorism. Seems more like encouraging another '9/11' rather than avoiding one to me.

Is the U.S. going to be popular no matter what it does? Doesn't seem like it. Especially to the radical jihadists.

 

[Willamena]

Bush vetoes bill outlawing CIA waterboarding | Politics | Reuters

Can we please fast-forward to January?

Is it just me, or does he seem even more like a puppet now than when he started?

 

[Starfish]

Is it just me, or does he seem even more like a puppet now than when he started?

Maybe he's sticking to what he believes, rather than caving to public pressure. He has had to deal with stuff that few presidents have experienced. Probably anyone in his shoes would have to bear with the verbal assaults. I sure wouldn't choose to trade places.

 

[Sunstone]

Is it just me, or does he seem even more like a puppet now than when he started?

I don't know, Patty, but it's always seemed to me that he pretty much follows whatever the neocons and corporations tell him to do.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Sorry for the "irrelevant" question, Midnight. Please educate me. Do we know for a fact that water boarding has never produced necessary information?

Plus I resent the name "torture monkey."

Starfish--I've read your posts in the past and you seem to be a smart person, but if we torture our enemies, we've prove them right. The ends does not justify the means.

 

[Starfish]

Starfish--I've read your posts in the past and you seem to be a smart person, but if we torture our enemies, we've prove them right. The ends does not justify the means.

Thankyou for the compliment. As I said, I am not pro-torture. But I don't know enough to condemn Pres. Bush over this.

I do not think Bush is evil, crazed, or stupid. I think he's doing the best he can to protect our country. So far, it's working, as there haven't been anymore 9/11's. He's made mistakes, but he's dealing with things our country has little experience with.

I'm tired of the insults, name-calling, and complete disrespect. He is our president, elected by the people. Debate and disagreement, yes. Insults, no. Also, as I said, I couldn't stand our previous president. But he was our president and I respected the office. I would have defended him against insults and name-calling just as much.

 

[Smoke]

Thankyou for the compliment. As I said, I am not pro-torture. But I don't know enough to condemn Pres. Bush over this.

If you defend and approve the Bush administration's use of torture, then you are pro-torture -- if not in general, then at least when it's practiced by people you like.

I do not think Bush is evil, crazed, or stupid. I think he's doing the best he can to protect our country. So far, it's working, as there haven't been anymore 9/11's. He's made mistakes, but he's dealing with things our country has little experience with.

I'm tired of the insults, name-calling, and complete disrespect.

So am I. I'm tired of the insults and name-calling he and his party indulge in every day to appeal to the most mentally and morally impaired of their supporters. I'm tired of the complete disrespect for the Constitution of the United States. I'm tired of the complete disrespect for international law. I'm tired of the complete disrespect for due process, for human rights, and for basic human decency. And after seven years of his outrageous, immoral, stupid, hateful, and illegal behavior, I have no reservations at all about saying that Bush is evil, crazed, and stupid. 20 January 2009 will be one of the happiest days of my life, even if Insane Train McCain wins the election. And frankly, I find your attitude every bit as incomprehensible and offensive as you find mine.

 

[Starfish]

If you defend and approve the Bush administration's use of torture, then you are pro-torture -- if not in general, then at least when it's practiced by people you like.

So am I. I'm tired of the insults and name-calling he and his party indulge in every day to appeal to the most mentally and morally impaired of their supporters. I'm tired of the complete disrespect for the Constitution of the United States. I'm tired of the complete disrespect for international law. I'm tired of the complete disrespect for due process, for human rights, and for basic human decency. And after seven years of his outrageous, immoral, stupid, hateful, and illegal behavior, I have no reservations at all about saying that Bush is evil, crazed, and stupid. 20 January 2009 will be one of the happiest days of my life, even if Insane Train McCain wins the election. And frankly, I find your attitude every bit as incomprehensible and offensive as you find mine.

Then you have to condemn Presidents Roosevelt and Truman. They allowed fire-bombing of entire cities. Think of the children burned and suffocated. Or the bombs dropped on Japan. Water boarding pales to all of this. Presidents sometimes have to make ugly choices in the name of national security.

I'm not going to address the rest of your post, as I'll just repeat myself.

 

[Smoke]

Then you have to condemn Presidents Roosevelt and Truman. They allowed fire-bombing of entire cities. Think of the children burned and suffocated. Or the bombs dropped on Japan.

No problem.

That's another thing that amazes me about the Christian Right. In their little world, if you're not a doctrinaire Republican, you must be a doctrinaire Democrat. If you criticize a Republican, they always retaliate by criticizing a Democrat, as if they've got you now. What a pathetic defense for the crimes of their leaders.

Just so you know, I'm not a Democrat, it makes me sick to vote for the Democrats, and the only thing I like about the Democrats is that they cause less harm than the Republicans. It's not the difference between the good guys and the bad guys, it's more like the difference between the flu and pancreatic cancer. I've repeatedly condemned the use of nuclear weapons and firebombing during World War II, and I've been doing it for thirty years.

Presidents sometimes have to make ugly choices in the name of national security.

The use of torture doesn't improve our national security; it imperils our national security. Like virtually every decision Bush has made over the last seven years, it only makes things worse.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

No problem.

That's another thing that amazes me about the Christian Right. In their little world, if you're not a doctrinaire Republican, you must be a doctrinaire Democrat. If you criticize a Republican, they always retaliate by criticizing a Democrat, as if they've got you now. What a pathetic defense for the crimes of their leaders.

Just so you know, I'm not a Democrat, it makes me sick to vote for the Democrats, and the only thing I like about the Democrats is that they cause less harm than the Republicans. It's not the difference between the good guys and the bad guys, it's more like the difference between the flu and pancreatic cancer. I've repeatedly condemned the use of nuclear weapons and firebombing during World War II, and I've been doing it for thirty years.

The use of torture doesn't improve our national security; it imperils our national security. Like virtually every decision Bush has made over the last seven years, it only makes things worse.

:shout Hey, don't lump all us Christians into one camp. I think Bush has hurt the world as a whole. I wish there was an Independent ticket personally.

 

[Father Heathen]

:shout Hey, don't lump all us Christians into one camp. I think Bush has hurt the world as a whole. I wish there was an Independent ticket personally.

I don't think he did. He made mention of The Christian Right, which is a far right political movement, which of course doesn't encompass all christians.

 

[Smoke]

I don't think he did. He made mention of The Christian Right, which is a far right political movement, which of course doesn't encompass all christians.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Thank you!

 

[Jeremy Mason]

I don't think he did. He made mention of The Christian Right, which is a far right political movement, which of course doesn't encompass all christians.

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

 

[Starfish]

No problem.

That's another thing that amazes me about the Christian Right. In their little world, if you're not a doctrinaire Republican, you must be a doctrinaire Democrat. If you criticize a Republican, they always retaliate by criticizing a Democrat, as if they've got you now. What a pathetic defense for the crimes of their leaders.

Just so you know, I'm not a Democrat, it makes me sick to vote for the Democrats, and the only thing I like about the Democrats is that they cause less harm than the Republicans. It's not the difference between the good guys and the bad guys, it's more like the difference between the flu and pancreatic cancer. I've repeatedly condemned the use of nuclear weapons and firebombing during World War II, and I've been doing it for thirty years.

The use of torture doesn't improve our national security; it imperils our national security. Like virtually every decision Bush has made over the last seven years, it only makes things worse.

And just so YOU know, I didn't know they were Democrats. So that wasn't my point.