KHPR
Social Meritocratist
That's probably why we've had so many OTO coming over to us.The local OTO chapter is run by an ex-Setian who's a friend of mine even.
Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
ToS "vrs" Independent Setian... debate thread.
- Thread starter blackout
- Start date
That's probably why we've had so many OTO coming over to us.The local OTO chapter is run by an ex-Setian who's a friend of mine even.
Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Daelach
Setian
Another thought which fits well into this thread.
In economy, it is quite common that the solutions a company can find tend to be a direct copy of the communication structure involved. The well-know example is like "if you want to make a compiler and let it do by four teams, the result will be a four-pass-compiler". More figuratively: "process becomes product".
This made me think about religions where we may see the same.
Let us take a look at the Catholics: Their religion is a direct mapping of their church's organisation. It has a strong hierarchy, and no level can talk to anything but one level higher. So the individual Catholic cannot talk to his god directly, he needs, ultimately, the pope.
The protestants, however, do not have such an extremely hierachical organisation, and consequently, every Protestant can talk to his god.
Now when we look at independent Setians, of course they can work directly with Set. This is a direct mirror of the fact that they lack a wordly hierarchy.
The TOS, on the other hand, has his priests. Maybe the fact that Aquino was/is a military officer, accustomed to think in hierarchies, had some part in how he formed his then-new project: process became product. Now a hierarchical priesthood is only necessary if the people think that the priests have some kind of better access to Set, and that is, AFAIK, the TOS' position: The priests have a better understanding of Set.
My aim is not to discuss which position is "right" because no matter what position a certain Setian holds, he would not hold it if he did not consider it as right.
The point is the subtlety of how communication structures influence the outcome. Any comments?
In economy, it is quite common that the solutions a company can find tend to be a direct copy of the communication structure involved. The well-know example is like "if you want to make a compiler and let it do by four teams, the result will be a four-pass-compiler". More figuratively: "process becomes product".
This made me think about religions where we may see the same.
Let us take a look at the Catholics: Their religion is a direct mapping of their church's organisation. It has a strong hierarchy, and no level can talk to anything but one level higher. So the individual Catholic cannot talk to his god directly, he needs, ultimately, the pope.
The protestants, however, do not have such an extremely hierachical organisation, and consequently, every Protestant can talk to his god.
Now when we look at independent Setians, of course they can work directly with Set. This is a direct mirror of the fact that they lack a wordly hierarchy.
The TOS, on the other hand, has his priests. Maybe the fact that Aquino was/is a military officer, accustomed to think in hierarchies, had some part in how he formed his then-new project: process became product. Now a hierarchical priesthood is only necessary if the people think that the priests have some kind of better access to Set, and that is, AFAIK, the TOS' position: The priests have a better understanding of Set.
My aim is not to discuss which position is "right" because no matter what position a certain Setian holds, he would not hold it if he did not consider it as right.
The point is the subtlety of how communication structures influence the outcome. Any comments?
L.Keane
Master Cosmonaut~EoB
Dear Daelach,
I don't think your example is really so simple. The nonclerical Catholic individual most certainly can speak to God. They cannot, however, administer the Sacraments nor can they be part of the Church's structure. I think you are conflating the physical hierarchy of the Church and the Mysteries of the religion. I would defy you to find a Protestant church that is without some form of administrative hierarchy. Catholicism has a rich history of prayer, meditation, angelology, Saint veneration, and Marian cults that all speak to the notion that the individual most certainly does have a direct link to God they do not, according to the cosmology, have access to some of the Mysteries of the Church. In my opinion the Catholic Priest sees Catholicism differently from the lay person. I would suspect the notions of inadequacy found in the laity stem from wanting something they are not willing to work toward.
Please note, however, I am speaking specifically about the above example, not its application to the ToS as I would need more understanding about the Temple to comment on your application of the example.
Xeper
LK
Eschatas
Member
Has it become common practice to out former members of the Temple of Set in casual conversations?
Sor. Eschatas
KHPR
Social Meritocratist
No one's been outed and I'm detecting a bit of a general direction in where your posts are leading.
Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
I suppose I would fall into the "independent Setian" category, for now anyway as I plan to rejoin the ToS in the future. My allegiance has been and always will be to the Majesty of Set.
Speaking of Thelemic studies, I think Thelema is an essential part of the Path of Xeper. Shouldn't one know his True Will in order to Xeper in a balanced way? Self introspection is important and essential for the one who strives for Self-deification. A good understanding of the sentence "Know thy Self" is a useful tool, without it one runs the risk of trying to become something that their not.
How does one know their True Will? In my case It cried out to be actualized and expressed through music. It hit me one day while listening to Bach's "Toccata and Fugue in D minor". For some reason the desire to learn and master this piece of music became so overwhelming I knew it was something I had to do.
I had always poked around on the piano all my life, but while learning Bach I learned an essential Truth about myself; I had to learn and master the piano keyboard itself. That one piece of music by Bach was only the catalyst which opened the gates to something much deeper. I spent two years teaching myself, and when I felt I had learned all I possibly could on my own I spent another 6 years at a local university of music learning piano technique, music theory and composition. I remember during my first year at school my teacher, Dr. Brook, told me I had accomplished in that year what it takes most pianists four to five years to achieve. 7 to 8 hours a day, seven days a week I practiced and before I knew it I was learning the more progressive works of Bach, Beethoven, Liszt, Chopin, Prokofiev, etc. I now primarily compose works of my own for piano and guitar.
My music is now a vital aspect of my Magical expression and creativity. Many of us, especially Magicians, have these Magical truths within our being which once we become aware of them and work to develop them, become tools by which we manifest our Will to Magic.
Xeper.
/Adramelek\
Speaking of Thelemic studies, I think Thelema is an essential part of the Path of Xeper. Shouldn't one know his True Will in order to Xeper in a balanced way? Self introspection is important and essential for the one who strives for Self-deification. A good understanding of the sentence "Know thy Self" is a useful tool, without it one runs the risk of trying to become something that their not.
How does one know their True Will? In my case It cried out to be actualized and expressed through music. It hit me one day while listening to Bach's "Toccata and Fugue in D minor". For some reason the desire to learn and master this piece of music became so overwhelming I knew it was something I had to do.
I had always poked around on the piano all my life, but while learning Bach I learned an essential Truth about myself; I had to learn and master the piano keyboard itself. That one piece of music by Bach was only the catalyst which opened the gates to something much deeper. I spent two years teaching myself, and when I felt I had learned all I possibly could on my own I spent another 6 years at a local university of music learning piano technique, music theory and composition. I remember during my first year at school my teacher, Dr. Brook, told me I had accomplished in that year what it takes most pianists four to five years to achieve. 7 to 8 hours a day, seven days a week I practiced and before I knew it I was learning the more progressive works of Bach, Beethoven, Liszt, Chopin, Prokofiev, etc. I now primarily compose works of my own for piano and guitar.
My music is now a vital aspect of my Magical expression and creativity. Many of us, especially Magicians, have these Magical truths within our being which once we become aware of them and work to develop them, become tools by which we manifest our Will to Magic.
Xeper.
/Adramelek\