towards understanding the concept of just of the non Abrahamicreligions

[islam abduallah]

i noticed that non Abrahamic religions followers see the concept of hell and the Judgement are flaws in religions like Islam, Christianity and judhism, so i'd like to understand somthing about the non- Abrahamic religions
i think all of the religions believe that god is the absolute just and fair, so i'm asking if he's like that and there's no other life, why i couldn't see the signs of that just in that life?, for example a child was born in Canada as an example, his parents provides him by every thing he wishes, best doctors could examine him if needed, he is wearing clothes from the best brands all over the world, and till now he didn't do anything for the god to be rewarded for, on the other hand i could see another child born in Somalia who dies due to hunger and thirst, also he's living as a naked in the winter because his parents couldn't find a piece of leather to cover him by, and he didn't do any mistake or sin to be punished for, where's the Just here??

centuries ago, some countries invades Africa and steal the African wealth and treat them as slaves and build by their money a civilization and leave them naked, couldn't find what to wear or eat, while there's no interaction from the god, so how then could say that the god is just, he didn't stop the murders and allow them to steal, kill and to build civilization by other's money and he left the victims poor naked,... where's the just here?

 

[Sunstone]

I'm not at all sure that god(s) are as important in several of the non-abrahamic religions as a god appears to be in each of the abrahamic religions. The gods are important enough in Hinduism, but in Buddhism? In Taoism? In Confucianism? I don't think the gods are that important in Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucianism. And -- so far as I know -- neither one of those three religions asserts life is fair or just.

 

[YmirGF]

Well, I am certainly a non-Abrahamic person, though I do not see any religion as being worthy of serious consideration. I gather that English is not your first language, and it would seem that you are asking where is the Justice in your examples, from my point of view. Correct? Assuming so, I would say that "justice" is a man-made concept that there is never any guarantee of. In our "modern" world we try to maintain a sense of justice, but it is a pretty hit and miss affair. I am doubtful that any civilization throughout history has done much better, though many have done far worse.

This world is a natural clash of ideologies vying with each other for dominance. Where competing ideas meet, we often see sparks, as should be expected. How "just" the proponents of each is anybody's guess. To be honest, to many folks, god simply doesn't matter and has no bearing on reality.

 

[Valjean]

Not all religions believe in God. Not all believe in a just or fair world, or that if there is a God He has anything to do with justice or fairness. Some believe in incorporeal beings, but don't see them as creators, omnipotent or interested tn the affairs of man. The Gods of Greece and Rome, for example, were not lawgivers and judges, but more like immensely powerful but psychologically flawed human beings.

 

[Riverwolf]

According to the Sages, this world is a world of dualities - i.e., of pain and pleasure. Therefore, both of these will be experienced by all souls on their journey towards reunion with God. One life a soul could be born as a well off person with much to be thankful for, the next life born in a starving village barely able to survive.

IOW, there isn't really any divine "justice"; the closest concept to that is karma, but I don't like to think of that as justice, but simple cause and effect which is beyond good and evil.

 

[Me Myself]

i noticed that non Abrahamic religions followers see the concept of hell and the Judgement are flaws in religions like Islam, Christianity and judhism, so i'd like to understand somthing about the non- Abrahamic religions
i think all of the religions believe that god is the absolute just and fair, so i'm asking if he's like that and there's no other life, why i couldn't see the signs of that just in that life?, for example a child was born in Canada as an example, his parents provides him by every thing he wishes, best doctors could examine him if needed, he is wearing clothes from the best brands all over the world, and till now he didn't do anything for the god to be rewarded for, on the other hand i could see another child born in Somalia who dies due to hunger and thirst, also he's living as a naked in the winter because his parents couldn't find a piece of leather to cover him by, and he didn't do any mistake or sin to be punished for, where's the Just here??

centuries ago, some countries invades Africa and steal the African wealth and treat them as slaves and build by their money a civilization and leave them naked, couldn't find what to wear or eat, while there's no interaction from the god, so how then could say that the god is just, he didn't stop the murders and allow them to steal, kill and to build civilization by other's money and he left the victims poor naked,... where's the just here?

Karma. Probably the one who got **** was a ***** in a past life and the other way around is true as well. I would personally prefer our souls didn´t need some extreme suffering to learn and think that every time we learn in a happy merry go round corny way is thousand times better that the trimes we learn with suffering.

In any case, I do prefer Karma than the alternative of infinite Hell. As I´ve read it somewhere else (and beleive was very suitly put) it is unfair to have infinite punishment for a finite amount of actions.

That is my take on it at least.

 

[islam abduallah]

According to the Sages, this world is a world of dualities - i.e., of pain and pleasure. Therefore, both of these will be experienced by all souls on their journey towards reunion with God. One life a soul could be born as a well off person with much to be thankful for, the next life born in a starving village barely able to survive.

yes. this world of dualities, but i can't comare the suffering of the children in somailia due to hunger and thirst by suffering in canda because he will not go to the beach or he doesn't have enough money to buy a NIKE shoe

[/QUOTE] IOW, there isn't really any divine "justice"; the closest concept to that is karma, but I don't like to think of that as justice, but simple cause and effect which is beyond good and evil [/QUOTE]

indeed if there's any divine Justice, that means there's no god in divine, indeed i consider the god who couldn't achieve the concept of Justice isn't a god and he doesn't deserve to be worshiped or followed, what's your opinion ?

 

[Flankerl]

i noticed that non Abrahamic religions followers see the concept of hell and the Judgement are flaws in religions like Islam, Christianity and judhism, so i'd like to understand somthing about the non- Abrahamic religions

I think it'll be better if you'd start learning the concept of the so called "abrahamic faiths". Because there is no hell in judaism.

 

[LuisDantas]

i noticed that non Abrahamic religions followers see the concept of hell and the Judgement are flaws in religions like Islam, Christianity and judhism, so i'd like to understand somthing about the non- Abrahamic religions

I wouldn't exactly call them flaws. The concepts may be used constructively, as allegories. The flaw IMO is in attempting to see them as literal truths, and above all in attempting to support a morality system on them.

i think all of the religions believe that god is the absolute just and fair,

I beg to differ. Most varieties of Abrahamic faiths and Hinduist schools of thought probably fulfill that description. Other faiths don't necessarily even have something akin to a concept of god.

so i'm asking if he's like that and there's no other life, why i couldn't see the signs of that just in that life?, for example a child was born in Canada as an example, his parents provides him by every thing he wishes, best doctors could examine him if needed, he is wearing clothes from the best brands all over the world, and till now he didn't do anything for the god to be rewarded for, on the other hand i could see another child born in Somalia who dies due to hunger and thirst, also he's living as a naked in the winter because his parents couldn't find a piece of leather to cover him by, and he didn't do any mistake or sin to be punished for, where's the Just here??

That is a fair question. There are those who believe that the justice will be attained in some sort of afterlife, or that it is being enacted as a result from deeds and misdeeds from previous lifes. I don't think that is a very convincing or healthy approach, however.

I would much rather conclude that the (very realistic) situation that you describe does indeed happen, and it is evidence that such justice is not to be found ready-made in this world. I don't personally believe in other worlds in the religious sense either, so it would follow that either God does not exist or does not want or can not act to ensure that justice.

There are many ways of validating those premises together, but it seems to me that the most valid is by concluding that God does want us to do our part in maintaing and attaining some degree of quality of life.

 

[Riverwolf]

yes. this world of dualities, but i can't comare the suffering of the children in somailia due to hunger and thirst by suffering in canda because he will not go to the beach or he doesn't have enough money to buy a NIKE shoe

Of course there's no comparison. But I'd hardly call your latter example "suffering."

indeed if there's any divine Justice, that means there's no god in divine, indeed i consider the god who couldn't achieve the concept of Justice isn't a god and he doesn't deserve to be worshiped or followed, what's your opinion ?

I don't worship God as a King, serving as judge and jury. That's a human concept. Justice is a human concept designed to achieve harmony and fairness on a large scale. However, beyond various civilizations' attempts to create this within themselves, justice does not exist. We are ultimately part of the world, where the concepts of "just" and "fair" do not apply.

Therefore, it falls onto the shoulders of humans to alleviate the human sufferings in the world, not on God. We are, collectively, perfectly capable of doing this.

 

[no-body]

Infinite pain for a finite crime makes God a cruel, unjust God no matter how terrible the crimes of the person being sent to hell.

 

[Many Sages One Truth]

I think it's not that non-Abrahamic religions don't have a concept of divine justice, many believe in karma. I think we just realize how messed up and unjust the idea of an eternal hell is. For references see my replies in the Hell thread. If God is able to stop people from going to hell but doesn't he's either: A. A very spiteful parent, B. A parent that's good at child abandonment

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

I think it'll be better if you'd start learning the concept of the so called "abrahamic faiths". Because there is no hell in judaism.

I thought this was an open concept?

 

[islam abduallah]

Well, I am certainly a non-Abrahamic person, though I do not see any religion as being worthy of serious consideration. I gather that English is not your first language, and it would seem that you are asking where is the Justice in your examples, from my point of view. Correct? Assuming so, I would say that "justice" is a man-made concept that there is never any guarantee of. In our "modern" world we try to maintain a sense of justice, but it is a pretty hit and miss affair. I am doubtful that any civilization throughout history has done much better, though many have done far worse.

This world is a natural clash of ideologies vying with each other for dominance. Where competing ideas meet, we often see sparks, as should be expected. How "just" the proponents of each is anybody's guess. To be honest, to many folks, god simply doesn't matter and has no bearing on reality.

yes, English isn't my first language, Arabic is my first one, i hope that doesn't represent a barrier

indeed my point is all of us see that the god should be just enough, distribute the wealth among us equally and prevents people from stealing other to achieve the absolute justice in that life as most of the non- Abarahimic beliefs don't believe in the other life's judgement
so if it's like that, where's the god's just i couldn't see it

and so that we are in bad need for the other life's judgement to judge between the victim and the offender, to return the right to the victims and that what abrahimc religions believe in

 

[islam abduallah]

Not all religions believe in God. Not all believe in a just or fair world, or that if there is a God He has anything to do with justice or fairness. Some believe in incorporeal beings, but don't see them as creators, omnipotent or interested tn the affairs of man. The Gods of Greece and Rome, for example, were not lawgivers and judges, but more like immensely powerful but psychologically flawed human beings.

so unjust god doesn't deserve to be worshiped, followed nor believed in

 

[islam abduallah]

Karma. Probably the one who got **** was a ***** in a past life and the other way around is true as well. I would personally prefer our souls didn´t need some extreme suffering to learn and think that every time we learn in a happy merry go round corny way is thousand times better that the trimes we learn with suffering.

In any case, I do prefer Karma than the alternative of infinite Hell. As I´ve read it somewhere else (and beleive was very suitly put) it is unfair to have infinite punishment for a finite amount of actions.

That is my take on it at least.

as a muslim, i agree that it's unfair to have infinite punishment for a finite amount of actions

but could you tell me how Karma do the absolute just ?

 

[Riverwolf]

but could you tell me how Karma do the absolute just ?

When spoken of as a justice system, karma is basically this: whatever you do to others, that will be done to you. So, for example, Hitler may be reincarnated as a victim of another fascist government. Rapists will be reborn as rape victims.

That sort of thing.

I personally believe it's more complicated than that, but that's the basic idea.

 

[islam abduallah]

When spoken of as a justice system, karma is basically this: whatever you do to others, that will be done to you. So, for example, Hitler may be reincarnated as a victim of another fascist government. Rapists will be reborn as rape victims.

That sort of thing.

I personally believe it's more complicated than that, but that's the basic idea.

i read little about karma, and i have some comments about it,
1- when will be this reborn, i mean is it in the current life, if yes, is that means that my soul was in a former man body and it reborns again in my body
2- how Karma deal with concept of repenting and giving up sins
3-what about the poor, they are suffering at this life, and maybe there's no body is the reason of being poor, will they reborn as a rich
4- what about the victim's right, if you punish the offender in another life what does the victim gain?

 

[GURSIKH]

i noticed that non Abrahamic religions followers see the concept of hell and the Judgement are flaws in religions like Islam, Christianity and judhism, so i'd like to understand somthing about the non- Abrahamic religions
i think all of the religions believe that god is the absolute just and fair, so i'm asking if he's like that and there's no other life, why i couldn't see the signs of that just in that life?, for example a child was born in Canada as an example, his parents provides him by every thing he wishes, best doctors could examine him if needed, he is wearing clothes from the best brands all over the world, and till now he didn't do anything for the god to be rewarded for, on the other hand i could see another child born in Somalia who dies due to hunger and thirst, also he's living as a naked in the winter because his parents couldn't find a piece of leather to cover him by, and he didn't do any mistake or sin to be punished for, where's the Just here??

centuries ago, some countries invades Africa and steal the African wealth and treat them as slaves and build by their money a civilization and leave them naked, couldn't find what to wear or eat, while there's no interaction from the god, so how then could say that the god is just, he didn't stop the murders and allow them to steal, kill and to build civilization by other's money and he left the victims poor naked,... where's the just here?

As she(soul) has planted, so does she harvest; such is the field of karma._Guru Nanak

 

[Riverwolf]

i read little about karma, and i have some comments about it,
1- when will be this reborn, i mean is it in the current life, if yes, is that means that my soul was in a former man body and it reborns again in my body
2- how Karma deal with concept of repenting and giving up sins
3-what about the poor, they are suffering at this life, and maybe there's no body is the reason of being poor, will they reborn as a rich
4- what about the victim's right, if you punish the offender in another life what does the victim gain?

These are good questions that I can't answer. Like I said, I personally believe it's more complicated than that. I just reported the more common thinking.