"Trans" is clearly a hot topic. But what is it?

[icehorse]

I suspect that arriving at a definition of "trans" might be non-trivial.

Here's a definitions I found (with minor variations) a few different places:

wikipedia: A transgender person (often abbreviated to trans person) is someone whose gender identity or gender expression does not correspond with the sex they were assigned at birth.

So now I think we have to understand "gender identity", right? Here's what I found:

wikipedia: Gender identity is the personal sense of one's own gender.

So here's a whack at a definition. This is a "strawman proposal", i.e., a proposal that's probably not correct, but is meant as a starting point to get to a consensus:

"A transgender person feels as though they're the wrong biological sex."

Can we improve on that?..

 

[Estro Felino]

I can help with a juridical definition.
How the law and the jurisprudence defines trans-sexuality.
Trans-sexuality, to sum up, is the condition where the person doesn't identify with the endocrine system and the sexual apparatus that nature provided them at birth so, for the sake of their own psychological and physical welfare they rely on medicine and surgery to make their body and their endocrine system align with the gender they identify with. It's an alignment of the body to the psyche.
It's a very serious medical condition that medicine can correct and improve.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I suspect that arriving at a definition of "trans" might be non-trivial.

Here's a definitions I found (with minor variations) a few different places:



So now I think we have to understand "gender identity", right? Here's what I found:



So here's a whack at a definition. This is a "strawman proposal", i.e., a proposal that's probably not correct, but is meant as a starting point to get to a consensus:

"A transgender person feels as though they're the wrong biological sex."

Can we improve on that?..

I can help with a juridical definition.
How the law and the jurisprudence defines trans-sexuality.
Trans-sexuality, to sum up, is the condition where the person doesn't identify with the endocrine system and the sexual apparatus that nature provided them at birth so, for the sake of their own psychological and physical welfare they rely on medicine and surgery to make their body and their endocrine system align with the gender they identify with. It's an alignment of the body to the psyche.
It's a very serious medical condition that medicine can correct and improve.

There are the psychological and medical conditions that should be taken very seriously. These are things that cause a lot of suffering and the stigmatization that makes it so much worse is preventable and should be.

However, I think it's useful to assume that there may be folks who, without suffering from the same conditions, may want (as opposed to need) a gender change. Transfolks who may not require the same medical or psychological care should be taken into account while also acknowledging that folks with gender dysphoria likely suffer more. Bodily autonomy and the right to manage one's own biological being are important if we wish to assume such a thing as natural rights.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I suspect that arriving at a definition of "trans" might be non-trivial.

Here's a definitions I found (with minor variations) a few different places:



So now I think we have to understand "gender identity", right? Here's what I found:



So here's a whack at a definition. This is a "strawman proposal", i.e., a proposal that's probably not correct, but is meant as a starting point to get to a consensus:

"A transgender person feels as though they're the wrong biological sex."

Can we improve on that?..

Yes. By going back to defining it as a mental illness or a physical defect. Only two choices.

Pro or con?

Myth #8: Transgender people are mentally ill

Being transgender is not a mental disorder, according to major medical organizations.

www.vox.com

Con or pro?

Let’s Just Say It: Transgenderism Is a Mental Illness - The American Spectator | USA News and PoliticsThe American Spectator | USA News and Politics

It isn't a civil rights cause, it isn't a new form of free expression, it isn't a natural societal evolution.

spectator.org

 

[Estro Felino]

There are the psychological and medical conditions that should be taken very seriously. These are things that cause a lot of suffering and the stigmatization that makes it so much worse is preventable and should be.

However, I think it's useful to assume that there may be folks who, without suffering from the same conditions, may want (as opposed to need) a gender change. Transfolks who may not require the same medical or psychological care should be taken into account while also acknowledging that folks with gender dysphoria likely suffer more. Bodily autonomy and the right to manage one's own biological being are important if we wish to assume such a thing as natural rights.

Gender is something very stereotypical, that changes across cultures.
I mean, if a woman likes to wear a male suit with a shirt and necktie, does this mean she's not a woman any more?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Gender is something very stereotypical, that changes across cultures.
I mean, if a woman likes to wear a male suit with a shirt and necktie, does this mean she's not a woman any more?

It is dynamic. Gender is a complex mix of psychology, sociology, and biology. An individual's experience of gender within the larger culture as it relates to their personal biological being and psychological condition as well as their social network. Whether that person on your example relates to a particular gender or not is likely not simply determined by dress.

 

[PureX]

Since it as now being used as a kind of 'catch-all' term, I would define it as referring to anyone that is in a transitional mindset regarding their sexual identity. And that seems to me to be a normal and reasonable position that one might find themselves to be in. Especially younger people. So I am not in any way puzzled or worried about the recent trend toward gender-fluidity among the younger generations (I'm a boomer). And "trans" seems like an accurate, non-insulting word for us all to use to reference it.

 

[Estro Felino]

It is dynamic. Gender is a complex mix of psychology, sociology, and biology. An individual's experience of gender within the larger culture as it relates to their personal biological being and psychological condition as well as their social network. Whether that person on your example relates to a particular gender or not is likely not simply determined by dress.

Then why define ourselves?
We are just persons.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Then why define ourselves?
We are just persons.

Because we are social creatures. Identity matters to us.

 

[PureX]

Then why define ourselves?
We are just persons.

"I" am an idea that exists not just in my own mind, but with variations, in the minds of everyone who knows me. "I" am an "identity collective" that exists in the minds of all who know or know of "PureX".

That's why identity matters, including gender identity. It's how people "know" us. It's who we are in their minds, and in our own.

 

[Jimmy]

I think we all know what trans is. Hahaha

 

[icehorse]

"I" am an idea that exists not just in my own mind, but with variations, in the minds of everyone who knows me. "I" am an "identity collective" that exists in the minds of all who know or know of "PureX".

That's why identity matters, including gender identity. It's how people "know" us. It's who we are in their minds, and in our own.

Do you think the "I" is separate from the body? Or are we our bodies?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I suspect that arriving at a definition of "trans" might be non-trivial.

Here's a definitions I found (with minor variations) a few different places:



So now I think we have to understand "gender identity", right? Here's what I found:



So here's a whack at a definition. This is a "strawman proposal", i.e., a proposal that's probably not correct, but is meant as a starting point to get to a consensus:

"A transgender person feels as though they're the wrong biological sex."

Can we improve on that?..

To me, it's a transsexual who transitions to the opposite sex to which they were born and strives to blend in as that. At the very least, gender/sex dysphoria is a basic trait. I don't like the term "transgender" as it's become pretty meaningless at this point, with a bunch of different groups thrown in together who have different goals and needs.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I can help with a juridical definition.
How the law and the jurisprudence defines trans-sexuality.
Trans-sexuality, to sum up, is the condition where the person doesn't identify with the endocrine system and the sexual apparatus that nature provided them at birth so, for the sake of their own psychological and physical welfare they rely on medicine and surgery to make their body and their endocrine system align with the gender they identify with. It's an alignment of the body to the psyche.
It's a very serious medical condition that medicine can correct and improve.

As usual, you're wrong. Not all medically transition. Not all need it. Not all want it. They still count as trans, even if they are normally a different category than those who do medically transition.

 

[Kfox]

I suspect that arriving at a definition of "trans" might be non-trivial.

Here's a definitions I found (with minor variations) a few different places:



So now I think we have to understand "gender identity", right? Here's what I found:



So here's a whack at a definition. This is a "strawman proposal", i.e., a proposal that's probably not correct, but is meant as a starting point to get to a consensus:

"A transgender person feels as though they're the wrong biological sex."

Can we improve on that?..

What does it mean to feel like you are the wrong biological sex? Is there a feeling all men have that women do not have? Or visa versa? If so, what is this feeling? If not, what is meant by feeling like the wrong (or even right) biological sex?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

If not, what is meant by feeling like the wrong (or even right) biological sex?

It has to be the feeling of being misrepresented - identifying with one identity and being identified as another. To claim it’s something beyond this is to enter into religious territory and place yourself in the position of having access to a divine realm which includes objective gender identity. Anyone who does the latter is fair game for tough questioning in my view.

 

[Kfox]

It has to be the feeling of being misrepresented - identifying with one identity and being identified as another.

Assuming we take biology out of the picture, What does it mean to identify with an identity like male or female? How does one do this?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Assuming we take biology out of the picture, What does it mean to identify as male or female? How does one do this?

You know how to identify and dis-identify with identities. It’s inherent. You’re either just forgetting or you need to become more self aware.

 

[Kfox]

You know how to identify and dis-identify with identities.

Identify with an identity? No I don't. How is this done?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Identify with an identity? No I don't. How is this done?

Admiration, attention, imitation. That’s what first comes to mind.